moving YoYo loaches & friends

I'm going to be moving 2 YoYo loaches, 3
Cory cats, 2-3 Glowlight Tetras & several
otocinclus from a 20G long to a 55G. Both
are moderately planted. Plants are easy care
such as crypts, Java Fern, maybe a sword or
two, & some floating plants.

The 55G has been set up for about a month.
Since I moved plants, driftwood, and decor
from the 20G, the 55G is already cycled.
I.e., ammonia is zero, nitrites are zero, nitrates
are present but low. Filtration is a power filter
and a powerhead. At the moment, both are
running without filter material.

Question is when to move the fish. Right
now the pH, GH & KH levels in both tanks
are close in value. Nitrates, though, are
high in the 20G (where fish currently live),
around 30-40 PPM. Nitrates in the 55G
are /=5 PPM.

I just did a partial water change (4 gal.
extracted) on the 20G and will retest
nitrates. I suspect I will continue doing
small water changes for a few days to
get nitrates lower.

From my readings it's suggested fish
shouldn't experience sudden changes in
water parameters, even from "dirty" to
"clean". The gravel in the 20G is three
years old and I doubt I can get it *very*
clean without yanking out some large
plants with extensive root systems. BTW
I don't do CO2 injection. My plants do
fine without it.

Can anyone suggest a target nitrate value
for the 20G that will make it safe for me
to move the fish to a much cleaner
(in nitrate terms) environment in the 55G?

I.e., is a value around 20 PPM nitrates in
the 20G reasonable, or should I try to get
nitrates lower? In the 5-10 range?

Thanks -

Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
I'm going to be moving 2 YoYo loaches, 3
Cory cats, 2-3 Glowlight Tetras & several
otocinclus from a 20G long to a 55G. Both
are moderately planted. Plants are easy care
such as crypts, Java Fern, maybe a sword or
two, & some floating plants.

The 55G has been set up for about a month.
Since I moved plants, driftwood, and decor
from the 20G, the 55G is already cycled.
I.e., ammonia is zero, nitrites are zero, nitrates
are present but low. Filtration is a power filter
and a powerhead. At the moment, both are
running without filter material.

Question is when to move the fish. Right
now the pH, GH & KH levels in both tanks
are close in value. Nitrates, though, are
high in the 20G (where fish currently live),
around 30-40 PPM. Nitrates in the 55G
are /=5 PPM.

I just did a partial water change (4 gal.
extracted) on the 20G and will retest
nitrates. I suspect I will continue doing
small water changes for a few days to
get nitrates lower.

From my readings it's suggested fish
shouldn't experience sudden changes in
water parameters, even from "dirty" to
"clean". The gravel in the 20G is three
years old and I doubt I can get it *very*
clean without yanking out some large
plants with extensive root systems. BTW
I don't do CO2 injection. My plants do
fine without it.

Can anyone suggest a target nitrate value
for the 20G that will make it safe for me
to move the fish to a much cleaner
(in nitrate terms) environment in the 55G?

I.e., is a value around 20 PPM nitrates in
the 20G reasonable, or should I try to get
nitrates lower? In the 5-10 range?

Thanks -

Gail
==============================
PH and hardness was the only thing I ever concerned myself about when moving
fish. I never bothered to check the nitrate levels.... no problems so far.

On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:52:19 +0000, Gail Futoran wrote:

The 55G has been set up for about a month.
Since I moved plants, driftwood, and decor
from the 20G, the 55G is already cycled.
I.e., ammonia is zero, nitrites are zero, nitrates
are present but low.

Unless you've been adding ammonia, or there are fish already in the tank,
I don't see how it could be considered cycled. More likely the bacteria
that were present on the plants/driftwood/decor have died off from lack of
nourishment.

If you did have fish in the tank, ignore my concerns. If not, swap in
some filter material from the 20G and feed a teaspoon or so a day of
ammonia for a week. Then move one or two fish over and see how the tank
chemistry goes.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:52:19 +0000, Gail Futoran wrote:

The 55G has been set up for about a month.
Since I moved plants, driftwood, and decor
from the 20G, the 55G is already cycled.
I.e., ammonia is zero, nitrites are zero, nitrates
are present but low.

Unless you've been adding ammonia, or there are fish already in the
tank,
I don't see how it could be considered cycled. More likely the
bacteria
that were present on the plants/driftwood/decor have died off from
lack of
nourishment.

If you did have fish in the tank, ignore my concerns. If not, swap
in
some filter material from the 20G and feed a teaspoon or so a day of
ammonia for a week. Then move one or two fish over and see how the
tank
chemistry goes.

I haven't had to cycle a tank since I got my
first one set up. I currently have four active
(plants + fish) tanks. If you know what you're
doing - minimally, I'm no expert - there's no
need to do a new cycle. As long as one has
an active tank and plants, gravel, decor, etc.
to move into a new tank, there is no need for a
cycle period.
http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html#speed-cycling

To clarify, I will emphasize that in addition to
planting plants in the substrate, and moving over
driftwood colonized by Java Fern, I have a bunch
of floating plants (duckweed, anacharis, hornwort).
All help keep the tank cycled. (They get fed with
substrate food - plant tabs - and Flourish Excel.)

As stated in my original email, the 55G was set
up about one month ago. Starting about a week
ago when I tested the water I got ammonia = zero,
nitrites = zero, nitrates = 5 - 10, pH = 7.2 - 7.4.
That is a *cycled* tank.

My only question was to what extent I should
attempt to match nitrates from the source tank
(20G - nitrates about 30 PPM) to the target tank
(55G - nitrates about 7 PPM). All other water
parameters, including temperature, are close.

I'm inclined to continue daily small partial
water changes to the source (20G) tank
until the nitrates get closer to 20 than where
they are now, before gradually moving fish
to the 55G.

Thanks to all who responded.

Gail

On Apr 8, 2:52*pm, "Gail Futoran"
wrote:
I'm going to be moving 2 YoYo loaches, 3
Cory cats, 2-3 Glowlight Tetras & several
otocinclus from a 20G long to a 55G. *Both
are moderately planted. *Plants are easy care
such as crypts, Java Fern, maybe a sword or
two, & some floating plants.

The 55G has been set up for about a month.
Since I moved plants, driftwood, and decor
from the 20G, the 55G is already cycled.
I.e., ammonia is zero, nitrites are zero, nitrates
are present but low. *Filtration is a power filter
and a powerhead. *At the moment, both are
running without filter material.

Question is when to move the fish. *Right
now the pH, GH & KH levels in both tanks
are close in value. *Nitrates, though, are
high in the 20G (where fish currently live),
around 30-40 PPM. *Nitrates in the 55G
are /=5 PPM.

I just did a partial water change (4 gal.
extracted) on the 20G and will retest
nitrates. *I suspect I will continue doing
small water changes for a few days to
get nitrates lower.

From my readings it's suggested fish
shouldn't experience sudden changes in
water parameters, even from "dirty" to
"clean". *The gravel in the 20G is three
years old and I doubt I can get it *very*
clean without yanking out some large
plants with extensive root systems. *BTW
I don't do CO2 injection. *My plants do
fine without it.

Can anyone suggest a target nitrate value
for the 20G that will make it safe for me
to move the fish to a much cleaner
(in nitrate terms) environment in the 55G?

I.e., is a value around 20 PPM nitrates in
the 20G reasonable, or should I try to get
nitrates lower? *In the 5-10 range?

Thanks -

Gail

I would not worry about matching nitrates. To be honest either my
tanks are balaced out the same or I am just plain lucky as all I ever
check for anymore is to get the temps close and thats it. As long as
yuor sure your tank is now cycled, then just do a temperature
acclimation matchup. I think they would do just fine. Perhaps just
move a cou0le of fish at a time over, so as not to overload what ever
bio system is in place........sort of how they add sal****er fish only
do one or two at a time..so system can adjust to bio load. I like to
try and get my nitrates as low as possible but plants do neet it to
grow, and once again its been years on end since I have done any
serious water testing, and everything does great so far like it is. I
do however use co2 sysyem on the heavily planted tanks as there is not
sufficient bioload to do the polants much good without it. Hard to
pass it up for what I got it for....Close out at Petsmart and it was
like 75% off suggested list, and refills were selling for 1 cent a
pack regular price was like $12.99 a pack....................so maybe
it would not hurt to checkout Petsmart for the Hydro brand co2
system.......

The cory cats and glow light tet are pretty hardy, and I also have to
believe the clown loachs will do fine too........I also find Oto's
pretty darn hardy as well......so I think you will be just fine
without worrying with nitrate etc matchup. even 10-20 ppm of nitrate
is not going to hurt the fish in a heavily planted tank...but I wuod
shoot for the 10 ppm range myself "IF" I was one to do water tests.
Swap the media from the established tank to be on the safe side and
give it 5 to 7 days or just do the couple of fish at a time over a
week or two time span with old filter media in place and it should be
ok.