Tank of doom :-(

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and really
running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.

Problems started a couple of weeks ago, when I had a couple of golden
mollys die the same day. My immediate reaction was to do a partial water
change, (30%ish), and cleaned the pump filter using tank water (I never
use untreated tap water).

As a precaution, I have been putting a general purpose antibiotic, Myxazin
for the last week, and after each partial water change, I have added some
cycle (Nutrafin)

Anyway, since then, the fish have been going on a regularish basis. By
the end of last week, another 3 mollies had gone. I did a Nitrite test,
and it looked pretty reasonable (0.3 or thereabous). Since then, I have
lost all 5 neon tetras.

Yesterday, I did another partial water change (30%), and put some cycle in.

None of the deaths, I have seen the run-up, but today, I found one of the
fish (tangarine tetra) having trouble keeping balance, swimming all over
the place, finally resting in the plants. A poke would send it off into a
untrolled frenzy. I took the fish out, and put it in a seperate tank. A
few hours later, another one exhibited the same problem, I moved that toa
seperate tank also. Both fish have now met their maker...

Anyone have any other suggestions. Uptil the fish die, they all seem
healty enough, eating and swimming fine, with none of the obvious
symptoms..

Need help before the remaining 8 or so established fish go the same way as
the others... Whats interesting, is that these fish seem to be dying in
order of "newness", followed by type.

--
-------------------------------------
http://www.rockhangouts.com
-------------------------------------

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:53:14 +0100, Black Shuck
wrote:

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and really
running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.

Problems started a couple of weeks ago, when I had a couple of golden
mollys die the same day. My immediate reaction was to do a partial
water change, (30%ish), and cleaned the pump filter using tank water (I
never use untreated tap water).

As a precaution, I have been putting a general purpose antibiotic,
Myxazin for the last week, and after each partial water change, I have
added some cycle (Nutrafin)

Anyway, since then, the fish have been going on a regularish basis. By
the end of last week, another 3 mollies had gone. I did a Nitrite test,
and it looked pretty reasonable (0.3 or thereabous). Since then, I have
lost all 5 neon tetras.

Yesterday, I did another partial water change (30%), and put some cycle
in.

None of the deaths, I have seen the run-up, but today, I found one of
the fish (tangarine tetra) having trouble keeping balance, swimming all
over the place, finally resting in the plants. A poke would send it off
into a untrolled frenzy. I took the fish out, and put it in a seperate
tank. A few hours later, another one exhibited the same problem, I
moved that to a seperate tank also. Both fish have now met their
maker...

Anyone have any other suggestions. Uptil the fish die, they all seem
healty enough, eating and swimming fine, with none of the obvious
symptoms..

Need help before the remaining 8 or so established fish go the same way
as the others... Whats interesting, is that these fish seem to be dying
in order of "newness", followed by type.


Well since the last post, another has gone. I have taken the very radical
step of moving all the still healthy looking fish to a temporary tank
(well large plastic 40L box), with 50% of the water from the old and 50%
treated tap water. put the heater and exiting pump filter from the tank
in there with it.

This was suggested by a fish keeper mate at work, as the last ditch
emergency course of action, which I feel I have gotten to. Will clean the
main tank ASAP, replace the gravel with sand (was going to do this
eventually anyway, and re-introduce the fish (if they are still alive by
then).

Any tips, comments, advice greatly apreciated.

--
-------------------------------------
http://www.rockhangouts.com
-------------------------------------

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:53:14 +0100, Black Shuck
wrote:

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and really
running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.

Should have mentioned, it's a 55Litre tank.

-------------------------------------
http://www.rockhangouts.com
-------------------------------------

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:08:36 +0100, Altum
wrote:


Cleaning the display tank is a very good idea - especially since you
wanted to anyway. Are you going to disinfect it?


Don't know, should I??? Need direction.... How do I eradicate whatever
it is that's killing these fish?

Black Shuck wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:08:36 +0100, Altum
wrote:


Cleaning the display tank is a very good idea - especially since you
wanted to anyway. Are you going to disinfect it?


Don't know, should I??? Need direction.... How do I eradicate whatever
it is that's killing these fish?

Are there ANY symptoms other than sudden death?

If you had a better idea what was happening, you might be able to use a
med that leaves your filter intact. With no idea, you might want to
sterilize. Unfortunately, it will kill whatever is left of your
biofiltration (probably not much after the acriflavine).

First, remove the old substrate that you intend to replace. Then
disinfect. Finally, set the tank back up and use Cycle (or I prefer
BioSpira) to help get the filter going.

I usually use potassium permangante. Kordon's Permoxyn or Jungle Clear
Water are two brands. For a tank with no fish, I add double the package
dose and leave it overnight with the filter running. If it goes brown
in the first few hours, I add more. Then rinse everything until the
water runs clear. Dilute permanganate (pale pinkish-purple) is a good
dip for live plants. Leave them in for 20 minutes and rinse well.

Permanganate may also help your fish in the Q-tank - it can kill
bacteria and parasites on skin and gills and has a different spectrum of
action than Myxazin. You treat fish for four hours with the dosage on
the bottle, add dechlor to inactivate it, and then change some water and
put in fresh carbon. It's strong stuff so never mix it with another med.

Salt kills most FW bacteria, is really easy to rinse off, and leaves no
toxic residue. Put at least 3% salt (30 grams/liter) into the tank and
run it overnight. In US measurements, it's a heaping 1/2 cup per gallon
- I don't know the metric equivalent but a cup holds about 250 ml. Any
cheap salt from the grocery store will work. Naturally, it kills plants.

Finally, you can use 5% bleach. It will kill EVERYTHING in under a half
hour. You have to be extremely careful to get all of the residue out of
the tank and off all the equipment, either by completely drying
everything or rinsing and using dechlor. Supposedly plants can survive
a brief bleach dip, but I've never tried.

Whew! long post. HTH - just pick the method that looks easiest.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 01:08:36 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Black Shuck wrote:
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:53:14 +0100, Black Shuck
wrote:

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and
really running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.

Problems started a couple of weeks ago, when I had a couple of golden
mollys die the same day. My immediate reaction was to do a partial
water change, (30%ish), and cleaned the pump filter using tank water
(I never use untreated tap water).

As a precaution, I have been putting a general purpose antibiotic,
Myxazin for the last week, and after each partial water change, I
have added some cycle (Nutrafin)

Anyway, since then, the fish have been going on a regularish basis.
By the end of last week, another 3 mollies had gone. I did a Nitrite
test, and it looked pretty reasonable (0.3 or thereabous). Since
then, I have lost all 5 neon tetras.

Yesterday, I did another partial water change (30%), and put some
cycle in.

None of the deaths, I have seen the run-up, but today, I found one of
the fish (tangarine tetra) having trouble keeping balance, swimming
all over the place, finally resting in the plants. A poke would send
it off into a untrolled frenzy. I took the fish out, and put it in a
seperate tank. A few hours later, another one exhibited the same
problem, I moved that to a seperate tank also. Both fish have now
met their maker...

Anyone have any other suggestions. Uptil the fish die, they all seem
healty enough, eating and swimming fine, with none of the obvious
symptoms..

Need help before the remaining 8 or so established fish go the same
way as the others... Whats interesting, is that these fish seem to
be dying in order of "newness", followed by type.


Well since the last post, another has gone. I have taken the very
radical step of moving all the still healthy looking fish to a
temporary tank (well large plastic 40L box), with 50% of the water from
the old and 50% treated tap water. put the heater and exiting pump
filter from the tank in there with it.

This was suggested by a fish keeper mate at work, as the last ditch
emergency course of action, which I feel I have gotten to. Will clean
the main tank ASAP, replace the gravel with sand (was going to do this
eventually anyway, and re-introduce the fish (if they are still alive
by then).

Any tips, comments, advice greatly apreciated.

Are there any external symptoms at all? Look for reddening at the mouth
or fin bases, thickened slimecoat, ulcers, white patches, spots or
sores. Take a flashlight once it's dark and look for the telltale tiny
dusting of velvet on the backs of the fish. (Although Myxazin should
have killed velvet...)

Flavobacterium can cause wipeouts like you're describing with few or no
external signs. Velvet can too, if you miss the sometimes subtle
symptoms. Can you get antibiotic food where you live? Salt might be
good to use instead of Myxazin, since it doesn't seem to be working.
You could try PimaFix too.

According to Pimafix literature, it appears like it was designed to
work best in tandem with Melafix. They're really not too clear on
this, but I would use both together.

-- Mister Gardener

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 01:08:36 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Flavobacterium can cause wipeouts like you're describing with few or no
external signs. Velvet can too, if you miss the sometimes subtle
symptoms. Can you get antibiotic food where you live? Salt might be
good to use instead of Myxazin, since it doesn't seem to be working.
You could try PimaFix too.

According to Pimafix literature, it appears like it was designed to
work best in tandem with Melafix. They're really not too clear on
this, but I would use both together.

The examples in the patent used PimaFix alone, including the study where
they got a little bit of efficacy against Flavobacterium.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:16:29 +0100, Mister Gardener
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 01:08:36 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Black Shuck wrote:
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:53:14 +0100, Black Shuck
wrote:

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and
really running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.


Well still none the wiser as to whats gone wrong. Lost another fish in
the night, and my Pleco jumped out the temporary tank (there is no lid for
the plastic box I am using as a temporary tank).

Found the Pleco at 2AM, when I went downstairs to get a glass of water.
Thought he was dead, but spring to life when I grabbed his tail, so I put
him back home in the tank, and put a towel over the tank to stop him
jumping out again. He was still alive this morning, but dead when I got
home from work today. I can only assume it was the carpet surfing
incident that did him in.

Have emptied and cleaned the old tank with salt, filled the bottom with
aquarium sand (washed in tap water). Filled the tank with water, and added
chlorine tap water treatment. Letting the tank settle, and will move the
pump/filter and fish back tommorrow.

1 question. I only have 1 tank heater, and it's currently in my temporary
tank. I know I need to get the main tank temp matched before I move the
fish back. I was planning on using boiling water from the kettle to get
the temprature correct before I move the fish. Will this be OK?

Anything else I should do? Was going to put tank cycle in, once
everything is back in place, then cross my fingers, and see if my 5
remaining fish can survive the stress of all this....




--
-------------------------------------
http://www.rockhangouts.com
-------------------------------------

Black Shuck wrote:

Well still none the wiser as to whats gone wrong. Lost another fish in
the night, and my Pleco jumped out the temporary tank (there is no lid
for the plastic box I am using as a temporary tank).

It's so hard when there are no symptoms other than sudden death. I take
it you checked for velvet. That leaves bacterial or viral diseases and
most of the virulent viruses tend to stick to related fish species.

Found the Pleco at 2AM, when I went downstairs to get a glass of water.
Thought he was dead, but spring to life when I grabbed his tail, so I
put him back home in the tank, and put a towel over the tank to stop him
jumping out again. He was still alive this morning, but dead when I got
home from work today. I can only assume it was the carpet surfing
incident that did him in.

That's terrible news. I hate losing jumpers. I just lost a shubunkin
from my pond who jumped when I had to change a lot of water.

Have emptied and cleaned the old tank with salt, filled the bottom with
aquarium sand (washed in tap water). Filled the tank with water, and
added chlorine tap water treatment. Letting the tank settle, and will
move the pump/filter and fish back tommorrow.

Sounds good.

1 question. I only have 1 tank heater, and it's currently in my
temporary tank. I know I need to get the main tank temp matched before
I move the fish back. I was planning on using boiling water from the
kettle to get the temprature correct before I move the fish. Will this
be OK?

It's fine. I've done it with hot tap water.

Anything else I should do? Was going to put tank cycle in, once
everything is back in place, then cross my fingers, and see if my 5
remaining fish can survive the stress of all this....

Um... The only things I can think of are obvious. Acclimate your fish
to the new water and keep the ammonia and nitrite low through the cycle
by changing water. Your cycle may be slower, but it will help with the
stress. Good luck.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Mid posted.

"Black Shuck" wrote in message
news On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:16:29 +0100, Mister Gardener
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 01:08:36 GMT, Altum
wrote:

Black Shuck wrote:
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:53:14 +0100, Black Shuck
wrote:

Having some serious problems with fish deaths at the moment, and
really running out of ideas on how to stop the deaths.


Well still none the wiser as to whats gone wrong. Lost another fish in
the night, and my Pleco jumped out the temporary tank (there is no lid for
the plastic box I am using as a temporary tank).

Found the Pleco at 2AM, when I went downstairs to get a glass of water.
Thought he was dead, but spring to life when I grabbed his tail, so I put
him back home in the tank, and put a towel over the tank to stop him
jumping out again. He was still alive this morning, but dead when I got
home from work today. I can only assume it was the carpet surfing
incident that did him in.

Have emptied and cleaned the old tank with salt, filled the bottom with
aquarium sand (washed in tap water). Filled the tank with water, and added
chlorine tap water treatment. Letting the tank settle, and will move the
pump/filter and fish back tommorrow.

1 question. I only have 1 tank heater, and it's currently in my temporary
tank. I know I need to get the main tank temp matched before I move the
fish back. I was planning on using boiling water from the kettle to get
the temprature correct before I move the fish. Will this be OK?

Just make absolutely sure you don't allow the boiling water to come anywhere
near the aquarium glass as thermal shock breaks glass easy - I can't
emphasize this more as I get the gist of things that if you did get a crack
in the glass/leak that you wouldn't have a place to put your fish at the
very least for awhile and I shudder to think what would happen to them
(maybe put them in a big tupperware-like tote until you could get another
tank?), anyways - good luck and later and read up on the nitrogen cycle if
you haven't already - also - if you can afford it get an ammonia test kit,
nitrite test kit, nitrate test kit, ph test kit, general hardness test kit,
carbonate hardness test kit, and use those and post here your results. The
general consensus here (according to what I have read about your thread
already) is that your tank isn't cycled yet and the ammonia emitted by your
fish is causing ammonia/nitrite build up which kills fish. And nitrAte will
do the same after it builds up to critical levels (different fish seem to
have different thresholds with nitrAte). I guess you MIGHT have cycled your
tank already but I thought I would reiterate what others here were saying
already. Also - I WAS losing a guppy or 2 every 2 days (and there were no
sings of what killed them other than the high nitrIte readings I was getting
with my test kit) before I reduced my stock of fish in one tank and I am
sure what killed them was the previously high nitrIte levels. Good luck and
later!



Anything else I should do? Was going to put tank cycle in, once
everything is back in place, then cross my fingers, and see if my 5
remaining fish can survive the stress of all this....




--
-------------------------------------
http://www.rockhangouts.com
-------------------------------------