Newbie and frustrated

George wrote:

Hmmm. I've never used UV and I've always been able to see the bottom of
my pond
(45" deep). If I use a UV filter, will I be able to see 'past' the
bottom? lol

Perhaps :-)

I don't believe in UV either, but I have never expected to see the bottom of
my pond (about the same depth, perhaps a little more). I can see it just
fine in the early spring, and occasionally in the summer, but algae's a
normal part of a pond. It doesn't bother me.
--
derek

"Joe Williams" wrote in message
...
I use a veggie filter and can always see the bottom of mine also. My
pond is 3 foot deep. Oh by the way this is rebeljoe on someone elses
box.

Veggie filters are truly the way to go, if you have room for it. I don't,
unfortunately.

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

Hmmm. I've never used UV and I've always been able to see the bottom of
my pond
(45" deep). If I use a UV filter, will I be able to see 'past' the
bottom? lol

Perhaps :-)

I don't believe in UV either, but I have never expected to see the bottom of
my pond (about the same depth, perhaps a little more). I can see it just
fine in the early spring, and occasionally in the summer, but algae's a
normal part of a pond. It doesn't bother me.
--
derek

I can usually see the bootm of mine pretty much all year round. I truly believe
in biofiltration. It works.

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
news:wT9_d.144483$4q6.122051@attbi_s01...
snip
Don't feel too bad. People with superior filters still have problem with
pea
soup. They still need to resort to using UV filter to remove it. If you
want a
quick solution, get one installed.

Hmmm. If the filter is so superior, why do they have pea green soup for
water?
I only had this problem once, immediately after I set up my pond three
years
ago. I haven't had it since.

As for bacteria products, I have no idea. I've never used them.

They work, and work well.


I disagree. I get an algae bloom EVERY YEAR. When the VF takes off, the
water clears within days. My neighbor, who uses a biofilter only, added a VF
last year, and had clear water for the first time.

I am not anti-UV, I just don't have a need for it.

Veggie filters are the way to go, if you have room for it. I don't so I use a
biofilter. It works. Perhaps you had a bad experience with it. I haven't. Of
course you are going to have some algae every year, especially at the end of
winter/early spring. That is a given since the veggies are perking up yet,
there is less shade, and the bacteria is still dormant. That changes within a
few weeks, and I can live with that. I never get pea soup algae. I always get
a little string algae in the early spring. But that is neither unsual, nor
unhealthy for the pond.

"George" wrote in message
news:rTl_d.79368$Ze3.26190@attbi_s51...

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

Hmmm. I've never used UV and I've always been able to see the bottom
of
my pond
(45" deep). If I use a UV filter, will I be able to see 'past' the
bottom? lol

Perhaps :-)

I don't believe in UV either, but I have never expected to see the
bottom of
my pond (about the same depth, perhaps a little more). I can see it
just
fine in the early spring, and occasionally in the summer, but algae's a
normal part of a pond. It doesn't bother me.
--
derek

I can usually see the bootm of mine pretty much all year round. I truly
believe
in biofiltration. It works.
=======================================
We also use heavy biofiltration but every spring we still get an algae bloom
for a week or more. I wish I could add more plants to the larger pond but
the koi just rip them out of their pots or knock them over. Only the water
iris and water bamboo survive them. The other plants are in the settling
tank/plant filter.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
Zone 6 TN
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"
html
They are superior in term of ammonia and nitrite removal. There is still
nitrate left.
pGeorge wrote:
blockquote TYPE=CITEHmmm.  If the filter is so superior, why do
they have pea green soup for water?
brI only had this problem once, immediately after I set up my pond three
years
brago. I haven't had it since./blockquote
/html

"Reel McKoi" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
news:rTl_d.79368$Ze3.26190@attbi_s51...

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

Hmmm. I've never used UV and I've always been able to see the bottom
of
my pond
(45" deep). If I use a UV filter, will I be able to see 'past' the
bottom? lol

Perhaps :-)

I don't believe in UV either, but I have never expected to see the
bottom of
my pond (about the same depth, perhaps a little more). I can see it
just
fine in the early spring, and occasionally in the summer, but algae's a
normal part of a pond. It doesn't bother me.
--
derek

I can usually see the bootm of mine pretty much all year round. I truly
believe
in biofiltration. It works.
=======================================
We also use heavy biofiltration but every spring we still get an algae bloom
for a week or more. I wish I could add more plants to the larger pond but
the koi just rip them out of their pots or knock them over. Only the water
iris and water bamboo survive them. The other plants are in the settling
tank/plant filter.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
Zone 6 TN
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

And you will likely continue to get algae blooms in the spring, whether you use
biofiltration or a veggie filter. I don't think that there is much you can do
about that except to rduce the bioload in the winter, quit feeding the fish, or
just be patient and wait until the filters kick in when the water warms up. You
could of course heat the water during the winter, if you don't mind extravagant
electric bills.

"Sean Dinh" wrote in message
...
They are superior in term of ammonia and nitrite removal. There is still
nitrate left.
George wrote:

Hmmm. If the filter is so superior, why do they have pea green soup for
water?
I only had this problem once, immediately after I set up my pond three years
ago. I haven't had it since.

I might experiment with a possible nitrate solution this year. If you're a
marine aquarium buff, and I am, then you know that everyone is moving completely
away from artificial filtration and moving to natural filters. What this means
is getting rid of all the foam, bioballs, and most any other filter media that
convert ammonia and nitrites to nitrates. What is substituted for these are a
refugium (garden pond people are already doing this with veggie filters), live
rock, and thick sea sand on the bottom with a current flowing over it. The idea
of using the sand substrate for filtration (without using the terrible
undergravel filters that suck up all the gunk in the tank and then let it
decompose on the bottom, adding to the nitrate problem) is that sea sand acts as
a nitrate filter, because the water flow through it is very slow compared to
other filters. With a current flowing over top of the sand (as you wold have in
a natural stream), a slow current is induced in the sand. So it allows for the
growth bacteria that will utilize the nitrates. These bacteria also grow in the
live rock. I know that everyone is against placing rock or any substrate in the
bottom of their ponds for various reasons. What I plan to do is to change the
setup on my main filter by pulling it completely out of the pond (the filter
material is all from porous rock). This will allow more room for the fish to
move around in. It will also allow me to build a fresh water reef on top of an
8 inch coarse, dark sand base. The final modification will be to divert some of
the outflow from the primary filter to allow it to flow slowly over the sand
base and more strongly across the reef structure (this might involve getting a
bigger pump, or a second pump). It works very well for sal****er tanks, so I'm
strongly considering trying this method.

Hi George,

the only major problem I see atm is hydrogen sulfide gas.
You would need a serious degassing tower to remove it fast.

I have rocks and kitty litter in my pond. I'm hoping the 3
Dojo Loach are digging around there to reduce hydrogen
sulfide gas accumulation.

As for nitrate reduction, the simplest is to use a 4' tall
Trickle Tower outside the pond. Since you don't have any
plants in your pond, you won't worry about TT being too
efficient in removing nitrate. Only people like me worry
about having too little nitrate for our water plants.

George wrote:
I might experiment with a possible nitrate solution this year. If you're a
marine aquarium buff, and I am, then you know that everyone is moving completely
away from artificial filtration and moving to natural filters. What this means
is getting rid of all the foam, bioballs, and most any other filter media that
convert ammonia and nitrites to nitrates. What is substituted for these are a
refugium (garden pond people are already doing this with veggie filters), live
rock, and thick sea sand on the bottom with a current flowing over it. The idea
of using the sand substrate for filtration (without using the terrible
undergravel filters that suck up all the gunk in the tank and then let it
decompose on the bottom, adding to the nitrate problem) is that sea sand acts as
a nitrate filter, because the water flow through it is very slow compared to
other filters. With a current flowing over top of the sand (as you wold have in
a natural stream), a slow current is induced in the sand. So it allows for the
growth bacteria that will utilize the nitrates. These bacteria also grow in the
live rock. I know that everyone is against placing rock or any substrate in the
bottom of their ponds for various reasons. What I plan to do is to change the
setup on my main filter by pulling it completely out of the pond (the filter
material is all from porous rock). This will allow more room for the fish to
move around in. It will also allow me to build a fresh water reef on top of an
8 inch coarse, dark sand base. The final modification will be to divert some of
the outflow from the primary filter to allow it to flow slowly over the sand
base and more strongly across the reef structure (this might involve getting a
bigger pump, or a second pump). It works very well for sal****er tanks, so I'm
strongly considering trying this method.

4. Draining and refilling, is just going to give the algae a nice new batch
of water to work in and probably stress everything else. I wouldn't do it.

I think this one is a total myth, more a YMMV.

Every year I have to totally drain my lily pond to get the baby fish and
muck out. So all new (treated) water goes in. That was a week ago, still
perfectly clear. Course I started the filter prior to the clean out so
there would be some bio-bugs in it. I gently rinse the sides, but leave the
fuzz algae attached.... and the clincher, there are no fish in the pond,
just the frogs doing their thing (which feeds the bacteria in the filter).

Now sometimes I have gotten Suspended Algae in this pond, but it had
nothing to do with the new water, it happened later in the summer when the
pH went sky high. 9.0+ and I'd over harvested some string algae (at the
time I didn't have much fuzz algae). The lily pads were thick, but once
that pH goes over 9.0 it becomes very difficult for the higher plants to
remove the nutrients. I'm hoping this year the fuzz algae has a good hold,
so far it is looking good. I also added a pound of baking soda from the
start. ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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