Help...Persistant Ich

Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they should
be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new neons recently
and we are assuming that's where the problem came from (unfortunatly we
don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been going on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement, just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the lights
and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest concer are my
breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank for about 3
years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Clara

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they
should
be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new neons
recently
and we are assuming that's where the problem came from (unfortunatly we
don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been going on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement, just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the
lights
and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest concer are my
breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank for about 3
years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Clara



I went through much the same as you a few weeks ago with my Clown Loaches
after adding water from an LFS. I think the answer was to be as persistant
as the Ich was. Here's what I did:-

1. Raised the temperature to 83F initially (in the end I think it went up to
86F). An air brick at this point becomes somewhat essential.

2. Treated with a formaldehyde based treatment called Interpet Anti White
Spot Plus which I had had success with before - no luck

3. Started feeding a high protein diet - no real scientific basis for doing
this. I just figured that if they were fighting off the Ich they needed all
the strength I could give them.

4. When the meds didn't work I started adding low doses of salt. Combined
with adding the salt I spent a week of doing daily thorough gravel vacs and
30% water changes. At this point I'd got carbon in the filter to pull out
the first batch of meds.
Also tried the "lights out" option - turning them only to feed and do a
health check twice daily.

5. At the end of this week I then started adding Protozin. I did not touch
the water - so it still contained some of the salt.

6. Just over a week from adding the first Protozin dose everyone was clear.

It was only 4 of my Clown Loaches that were affected however I did lose some
fish through the treatment and the clean up. Casualties were 2 Platys, 1
Neon and 2 Guppies. The Clowns got better gradually so I can't say exactly
which of the treatments I gave was the best (one cleared up with just the
salt).

I believe the Guppies died due to a water quality issue that occured a few
days after the treatment - someone else has also recently posted a similar
issue (see "Mid Cycle"). My tank was heavily planted and the treatment led
to a lot of dead plant matter which led to a nitrite spike (probably an
ammonia one as well but I didn't detect it). So once the treatment is
complete I strongly advise a good clean up of all debris - I removed all the
plants, heavily vacced the gravel, rinsed the filter medium in tank water,
made sure none of the valves were blocked from plant debris and did a 30%
change.

Hope things clear up soon.

Gill

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they
should be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new neons
recently and we are assuming that's where the problem came from
(unfortunatly we don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been going on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement, just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the
lights and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest concer
are my breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank for
about 3 years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Go and get some Protazin (made by Waterlife). Only use a 3/4 dose if you
have things like loaches. I don't bother with raising temps or adding salt.
If you do raise temps then add an airstone - much less oxygen in warmer
water. Not keen on adding salt either - the plants don't like it.

Its a 5 or 6 day treatment & its never failed me yet. Remmeber that the
white spots you see on the fish are where the parasite eggs are buried under
the skin. You can only kill the things once they erupt out & become free
swimming which takes a couple of days - so you won't see much change for 2-3
days. After all is done use some carbon in your filter to take the meds back
out the water and a dose of Melafix won't hurt to help the fish heal.

I.

"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they
should be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new
neons
recently and we are assuming that's where the problem came from
(unfortunatly we don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based
formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been going
on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement,
just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the
lights and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest concer
are my breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank
for
about 3 years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Go and get some Protazin (made by Waterlife). Only use a 3/4 dose if you
have things like loaches. I don't bother with raising temps or adding
salt.
If you do raise temps then add an airstone - much less oxygen in warmer
water. Not keen on adding salt either - the plants don't like it.

Its a 5 or 6 day treatment & its never failed me yet. Remmeber that the
white spots you see on the fish are where the parasite eggs are buried
under
the skin. You can only kill the things once they erupt out & become free
swimming which takes a couple of days - so you won't see much change for
2-3
days. After all is done use some carbon in your filter to take the meds
back
out the water and a dose of Melafix won't hurt to help the fish heal.

I.



Yep, that was the last med that I used that finally cleared it

Thanks for the help, I think we'll definitly give the Protazin a try. Have
to gamble a couple of days with salt and temp raises with the carbon back in
to clean out the esha stuff.

Lost one of the neons today, hopefully the bristlenoses will hold on through
this, they were fairly healthy before.

Finger's crossed!



"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they
should be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new
neons
recently and we are assuming that's where the problem came from
(unfortunatly we don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based
formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been going
on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement,
just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the
lights and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest concer
are my breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank
for
about 3 years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be
very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Go and get some Protazin (made by Waterlife). Only use a 3/4 dose if you
have things like loaches. I don't bother with raising temps or adding
salt.
If you do raise temps then add an airstone - much less oxygen in warmer
water. Not keen on adding salt either - the plants don't like it.

Its a 5 or 6 day treatment & its never failed me yet. Remmeber that the
white spots you see on the fish are where the parasite eggs are buried
under
the skin. You can only kill the things once they erupt out & become free
swimming which takes a couple of days - so you won't see much change for
2-3
days. After all is done use some carbon in your filter to take the meds
back
out the water and a dose of Melafix won't hurt to help the fish heal.

I.



Yep, that was the last med that I used that finally cleared it

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the help, I think we'll definitly give the Protazin a try. Have
to gamble a couple of days with salt and temp raises with the carbon back
in
to clean out the esha stuff.

Lost one of the neons today, hopefully the bristlenoses will hold on
through
this, they were fairly healthy before.

Finger's crossed!



"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a
very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as they
should be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new
neons
recently and we are assuming that's where the problem came from
(unfortunatly we don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based
formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been
going
on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of improvement,
just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off the
lights and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest
concer
are my breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the tank
for
about 3 years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be
very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Go and get some Protazin (made by Waterlife). Only use a 3/4 dose if
you
have things like loaches. I don't bother with raising temps or adding
salt.
If you do raise temps then add an airstone - much less oxygen in warmer
water. Not keen on adding salt either - the plants don't like it.

Its a 5 or 6 day treatment & its never failed me yet. Remmeber that the
white spots you see on the fish are where the parasite eggs are buried
under
the skin. You can only kill the things once they erupt out & become
free
swimming which takes a couple of days - so you won't see much change
for
2-3
days. After all is done use some carbon in your filter to take the meds
back
out the water and a dose of Melafix won't hurt to help the fish heal.

I.



Yep, that was the last med that I used that finally cleared it




My Clowns were healthy before as well....I'm sure this makes a positive
contribution to their survival. Most of the time that I have read about
deaths from Ich it is mainly the new fish, already weakened that succumbed -
another reason why I went for the high protein diet - to bolster up the
already healthy fish - worth a try I think while you are waiting for the
previous meds to clear. It it's Neons only that you are losing this might
bear this out as well....

Gill

More deaths today, been fishing out dead neons half the morning. The cats
are still alive...and one guppy.

Got the protozin at the ready to treat tomorrow. Doing a large water change
today with some salt.

Anybody know if the brislenoses are one of the scaleless fish...need to half
the dose of protozin if so?

"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the help, I think we'll definitly give the Protazin a try.
Have
to gamble a couple of days with salt and temp raises with the carbon back
in
to clean out the esha stuff.

Lost one of the neons today, hopefully the bristlenoses will hold on
through
this, they were fairly healthy before.

Finger's crossed!



"Gill Passman" gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote in message
.. .

"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"Clara" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm new to this group but looking for some help. We seem to have a
very
persistant case of Ich in our tank.

Established (3years) 130 litre tank, water conditions are all as
they
should be, ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate around 10. Put in 9 new
neons
recently and we are assuming that's where the problem came from
(unfortunatly we don't have a quarantine tank).

Have treated with Esha Exit ( I think it's a malachite green based
formula
but no ingredients on packaging) as advised by the LFS, followed the
instructions and the problem appears to just get worse. Has been
going
on
for about 10 days now and showing absolutely no signs of
improvement,
just
gets worse every day.

I've read up on the other posts on here and have now switched off
the
lights and raised the temp, and will try adding salt. My biggest
concer
are my breeding pair of bristlenose catfish who have been in the
tank
for
about 3 years now and are both showing signs of this problem.

Any advice/medication suggestions that anyone can think of would be
very
gratefully received

Getting quite desparate now :-(

Go and get some Protazin (made by Waterlife). Only use a 3/4 dose if
you
have things like loaches. I don't bother with raising temps or adding
salt.
If you do raise temps then add an airstone - much less oxygen in
warmer
water. Not keen on adding salt either - the plants don't like it.

Its a 5 or 6 day treatment & its never failed me yet. Remmeber that
the
white spots you see on the fish are where the parasite eggs are buried
under
the skin. You can only kill the things once they erupt out & become
free
swimming which takes a couple of days - so you won't see much change
for
2-3
days. After all is done use some carbon in your filter to take the
meds
back
out the water and a dose of Melafix won't hurt to help the fish heal.

I.



Yep, that was the last med that I used that finally cleared it




My Clowns were healthy before as well....I'm sure this makes a positive
contribution to their survival. Most of the time that I have read about
deaths from Ich it is mainly the new fish, already weakened that
succumbed -
another reason why I went for the high protein diet - to bolster up the
already healthy fish - worth a try I think while you are waiting for the
previous meds to clear. It it's Neons only that you are losing this might
bear this out as well....

Gill

"Clara" wrote in message
...
More deaths today, been fishing out dead neons half the morning. The cats
are still alive...and one guppy.

Got the protozin at the ready to treat tomorrow. Doing a large water
change today with some salt.

Anybody know if the brislenoses are one of the scaleless fish...need to
half the dose of protozin if so?

Forget the salt. Change the water & put the Protazin in. Don't think the
Bristlenoses are scaleless. Come to think of it they are fairly tough
skinned - a bit like Plecos & I'm surprised they got Ich at all.

I.

We're fairly surprised as well, they have been in the tank for 3 years and
have been really happy. We had a dose of ich about 21/2 years ago which took
out most of our other fish, and depressed us so much in the early days but
the cats seemed to be unaffected. These are the first new fish we added
since then, our pearl gourami died apparently of old age about 6 months ago
and we thought it was time to try something else in there. Should have left
well alone!
I guess we'll be getting a quarantine tank now, have to find somewhere to
put it...
"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

"Clara" wrote in message
...
More deaths today, been fishing out dead neons half the morning. The cats
are still alive...and one guppy.

Got the protozin at the ready to treat tomorrow. Doing a large water
change today with some salt.

Anybody know if the brislenoses are one of the scaleless fish...need to
half the dose of protozin if so?

Forget the salt. Change the water & put the Protazin in. Don't think the
Bristlenoses are scaleless. Come to think of it they are fairly tough
skinned - a bit like Plecos & I'm surprised they got Ich at all.

I.

Iain Miller wrote:
"Clara" wrote in message
...

More deaths today, been fishing out dead neons half the morning. The cats
are still alive...and one guppy.

Got the protozin at the ready to treat tomorrow. Doing a large water
change today with some salt.

Anybody know if the brislenoses are one of the scaleless fish...need to
half the dose of protozin if so?


Forget the salt. Change the water & put the Protazin in. Don't think the
Bristlenoses are scaleless. Come to think of it they are fairly tough
skinned - a bit like Plecos & I'm surprised they got Ich at all.

I.


They ARE plecos. ;-) They'll be fine with the Protazin.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com