Losing fish...any ideas appreciated

On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:28:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:27:16 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Derek Benson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:23:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Hi All,
This is really a continuation from the Sick Mollie in my son's tank
and
subsequent loss of two Mollies last weekend. I did my normal check
this
morning and now one of the Rosy Barbs is on her way out. Checked the
water
pH 8 (normal for our tanks), 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates are
at
5.

No new fish added for months. Tank has been running since last August.

Tank is around 15UK galls. Current occupants are 1 mollie and 4 Rosy
Barbs
(around 10 inches of fish maximum). Plenty of plants. Water changes
are
weekly 20-30%. We've had very few problems with this tank until now.

I just can't figure out what is going on here or what to do next. If
the
remaining Rosy Barbs would be OK with Gouramis I suppose I could move
them
and then strip down the tank - this is the only thing I can think of
for
now. But I hesitate because I don't want to risk infecting any of the
other
fish in the other tanks.

Does anyone have any clues as to what might be happening or what I can
do
next to keep the remaining fish?

Thanks
Gill


If I try to rule out causes of death based on your info and the info
you've given to others: It doesn't appear to be a common parasite like
Ich, or velvet because you see these on the fish. Internal parasites,
worms or flagellates or whatever will usually show symptoms of the
fish getting thinner, wasting away, the feces might be weird, white
and stringy or no feces at all from the fish. So I rule out all of
these.

I rule out poisoning be it from ammonia or nitrate or metals or
something weird gotten into the tank because the fish should show
signs of poisoning: breathing faster, panting at the surface or at the
bottom of the tank.

So what's left? I think your pH is a bit high, but if others want to
say that it's fine for these fish I'll take their word for it. I don't
pay much attention to pH anymore because where I live it's 7.0 out of
the tap.

If it's bacterial in nature as Elaine suggests, the way it works, as I
understand it, is more or less like this. These bacteria which can
cause illness, Aeromonas or Mycobacterium or whatever their names are,
will always be present in your tank just like the bacteria you want in
the tank, the species which break down the ammonia and nitrites. These
evil bacteria will grow in numbers if the tank is generally not clean
enough. Keep these numbers down by vacuuming gravel and changing water
more frequently and diluting out the little buggers. The gravel in
this tank is vacuumed all the way to the bottom glass of the tank? I
ask because I think these bacteria live and multiply down there where
there is less oxygen in the water surrounding the gravel.

If this is a bacteria problem, I don't think these fish in the tank
will infect fish in other tanks. The bacteria in question are already
in the other tanks in certain numbers anyway. I think what I would do
is move all the fish in with the gouramis, and tear down this tank
completely and start it over. If you decide to do this, after you
remove fish and plants pour in some chlorine bleach and stir up the
gravel and wash it out the following day. Everything will be
killed/disinfected by the bleach.

-Derek

What you are saying is making total sense....apart from a slight question
mark over a certain nephew deciding to over feed...I cannot think of
anything else (he was here a few days before the Mollie decline and again
a
couple of days ago). The gravel in this tank is not what I have in the
others - it is more a pea gravel rather than the finer stuff I normally
have
so harder to vaccum....maybe there is something trapped in there - like
Hydrogen Sulphide.....

My son comes back tomorrow from his Dad's....he is already disallusioned
and
thinking of giving up fish keeping based on the recent deaths....I hope I
can keep him hanging in there....he truly did love it....

Gill


If he was of the age, would you keep an ex girl friend around because
he once really liked her? Why not keep the tank for your own interest
and let him move on? In my fast growing years (as in height) I moved
through many interests. Here I am 60 years later picking up on one of
those interests.

dick

I totally agree with you. I had a word with him about his tanks and
suggested even consolidating them into just one tank to make the maintenance
easier for him (me in reality). The answer I got was "you're just after one
of my tanks". He wants to keep going he's just fed up with losing the fish -
and I can't say that I blame him.

Here's hoping for happier times
Gill


How about buying a new tank to replace the jinx, then you could
experiment to your heart's desire and boy luv would have the
excitement of setting up a new tank? (It is exciting setting up a new
tank, isn't it? Well, it can be if the recent experience has robbed
him of its joy.)

dick

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:28:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:27:16 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Derek Benson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:23:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Hi All,
This is really a continuation from the Sick Mollie in my son's tank
and
subsequent loss of two Mollies last weekend. I did my normal check
this
morning and now one of the Rosy Barbs is on her way out. Checked
the
water
pH 8 (normal for our tanks), 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates
are
at
5.

No new fish added for months. Tank has been running since last
August.

Tank is around 15UK galls. Current occupants are 1 mollie and 4
Rosy
Barbs
(around 10 inches of fish maximum). Plenty of plants. Water changes
are
weekly 20-30%. We've had very few problems with this tank until
now.

I just can't figure out what is going on here or what to do next.
If
the
remaining Rosy Barbs would be OK with Gouramis I suppose I could
move
them
and then strip down the tank - this is the only thing I can think
of
for
now. But I hesitate because I don't want to risk infecting any of
the
other
fish in the other tanks.

Does anyone have any clues as to what might be happening or what I
can
do
next to keep the remaining fish?

Thanks
Gill


If I try to rule out causes of death based on your info and the info
you've given to others: It doesn't appear to be a common parasite
like
Ich, or velvet because you see these on the fish. Internal
parasites,
worms or flagellates or whatever will usually show symptoms of the
fish getting thinner, wasting away, the feces might be weird, white
and stringy or no feces at all from the fish. So I rule out all of
these.

I rule out poisoning be it from ammonia or nitrate or metals or
something weird gotten into the tank because the fish should show
signs of poisoning: breathing faster, panting at the surface or at
the
bottom of the tank.

So what's left? I think your pH is a bit high, but if others want to
say that it's fine for these fish I'll take their word for it. I
don't
pay much attention to pH anymore because where I live it's 7.0 out
of
the tap.

If it's bacterial in nature as Elaine suggests, the way it works, as
I
understand it, is more or less like this. These bacteria which can
cause illness, Aeromonas or Mycobacterium or whatever their names
are,
will always be present in your tank just like the bacteria you want
in
the tank, the species which break down the ammonia and nitrites.
These
evil bacteria will grow in numbers if the tank is generally not
clean
enough. Keep these numbers down by vacuuming gravel and changing
water
more frequently and diluting out the little buggers. The gravel in
this tank is vacuumed all the way to the bottom glass of the tank? I
ask because I think these bacteria live and multiply down there
where
there is less oxygen in the water surrounding the gravel.

If this is a bacteria problem, I don't think these fish in the tank
will infect fish in other tanks. The bacteria in question are
already
in the other tanks in certain numbers anyway. I think what I would
do
is move all the fish in with the gouramis, and tear down this tank
completely and start it over. If you decide to do this, after you
remove fish and plants pour in some chlorine bleach and stir up the
gravel and wash it out the following day. Everything will be
killed/disinfected by the bleach.

-Derek

What you are saying is making total sense....apart from a slight
question
mark over a certain nephew deciding to over feed...I cannot think of
anything else (he was here a few days before the Mollie decline and
again
a
couple of days ago). The gravel in this tank is not what I have in the
others - it is more a pea gravel rather than the finer stuff I
normally
have
so harder to vaccum....maybe there is something trapped in there -
like
Hydrogen Sulphide.....

My son comes back tomorrow from his Dad's....he is already
disallusioned
and
thinking of giving up fish keeping based on the recent deaths....I
hope I
can keep him hanging in there....he truly did love it....

Gill


If he was of the age, would you keep an ex girl friend around because
he once really liked her? Why not keep the tank for your own interest
and let him move on? In my fast growing years (as in height) I moved
through many interests. Here I am 60 years later picking up on one of
those interests.

dick

I totally agree with you. I had a word with him about his tanks and
suggested even consolidating them into just one tank to make the
maintenance
easier for him (me in reality). The answer I got was "you're just after
one
of my tanks". He wants to keep going he's just fed up with losing the
fish -
and I can't say that I blame him.

Here's hoping for happier times
Gill


How about buying a new tank to replace the jinx, then you could
experiment to your heart's desire and boy luv would have the
excitement of setting up a new tank? (It is exciting setting up a new
tank, isn't it? Well, it can be if the recent experience has robbed
him of its joy.)

dick

I've come up with a way of decomissioning the tank that should not
compromise anyones safety - although I will lose my Betta from the Kitchen
to another tank for a few days.

Providing we have no more losses before tomorrow night - lost another Barb
this morning :-( I will put the plan in action tomorrow when I get back from
work.

We will then tear down this "jinx tank" and start it all over.....I have a
pump/filter hanging about that is the same size which I will start cycling
in one of the "healthy" tanks as soon as I can remember where I put it.

Matt is quite excited about starting the tank again.....so here is hoping.
He's been promised a trip with my "plastic" to refurb it. Afterall it was
his fault I got into this hobby in the first place :-)

Gill

On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:46:39 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:28:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:27:16 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Derek Benson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:23:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Hi All,
This is really a continuation from the Sick Mollie in my son's tank
and
subsequent loss of two Mollies last weekend. I did my normal check
this
morning and now one of the Rosy Barbs is on her way out. Checked
the
water
pH 8 (normal for our tanks), 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates
are
at
5.

No new fish added for months. Tank has been running since last
August.

Tank is around 15UK galls. Current occupants are 1 mollie and 4
Rosy
Barbs
(around 10 inches of fish maximum). Plenty of plants. Water changes
are
weekly 20-30%. We've had very few problems with this tank until
now.

I just can't figure out what is going on here or what to do next.
If
the
remaining Rosy Barbs would be OK with Gouramis I suppose I could
move
them
and then strip down the tank - this is the only thing I can think
of
for
now. But I hesitate because I don't want to risk infecting any of
the
other
fish in the other tanks.

Does anyone have any clues as to what might be happening or what I
can
do
next to keep the remaining fish?

Thanks
Gill


If I try to rule out causes of death based on your info and the info
you've given to others: It doesn't appear to be a common parasite
like
Ich, or velvet because you see these on the fish. Internal
parasites,
worms or flagellates or whatever will usually show symptoms of the
fish getting thinner, wasting away, the feces might be weird, white
and stringy or no feces at all from the fish. So I rule out all of
these.

I rule out poisoning be it from ammonia or nitrate or metals or
something weird gotten into the tank because the fish should show
signs of poisoning: breathing faster, panting at the surface or at
the
bottom of the tank.

So what's left? I think your pH is a bit high, but if others want to
say that it's fine for these fish I'll take their word for it. I
don't
pay much attention to pH anymore because where I live it's 7.0 out
of
the tap.

If it's bacterial in nature as Elaine suggests, the way it works, as
I
understand it, is more or less like this. These bacteria which can
cause illness, Aeromonas or Mycobacterium or whatever their names
are,
will always be present in your tank just like the bacteria you want
in
the tank, the species which break down the ammonia and nitrites.
These
evil bacteria will grow in numbers if the tank is generally not
clean
enough. Keep these numbers down by vacuuming gravel and changing
water
more frequently and diluting out the little buggers. The gravel in
this tank is vacuumed all the way to the bottom glass of the tank? I
ask because I think these bacteria live and multiply down there
where
there is less oxygen in the water surrounding the gravel.

If this is a bacteria problem, I don't think these fish in the tank
will infect fish in other tanks. The bacteria in question are
already
in the other tanks in certain numbers anyway. I think what I would
do
is move all the fish in with the gouramis, and tear down this tank
completely and start it over. If you decide to do this, after you
remove fish and plants pour in some chlorine bleach and stir up the
gravel and wash it out the following day. Everything will be
killed/disinfected by the bleach.

-Derek

What you are saying is making total sense....apart from a slight
question
mark over a certain nephew deciding to over feed...I cannot think of
anything else (he was here a few days before the Mollie decline and
again
a
couple of days ago). The gravel in this tank is not what I have in the
others - it is more a pea gravel rather than the finer stuff I
normally
have
so harder to vaccum....maybe there is something trapped in there -
like
Hydrogen Sulphide.....

My son comes back tomorrow from his Dad's....he is already
disallusioned
and
thinking of giving up fish keeping based on the recent deaths....I
hope I
can keep him hanging in there....he truly did love it....

Gill


If he was of the age, would you keep an ex girl friend around because
he once really liked her? Why not keep the tank for your own interest
and let him move on? In my fast growing years (as in height) I moved
through many interests. Here I am 60 years later picking up on one of
those interests.

dick

I totally agree with you. I had a word with him about his tanks and
suggested even consolidating them into just one tank to make the
maintenance
easier for him (me in reality). The answer I got was "you're just after
one
of my tanks". He wants to keep going he's just fed up with losing the
fish -
and I can't say that I blame him.

Here's hoping for happier times
Gill


How about buying a new tank to replace the jinx, then you could
experiment to your heart's desire and boy luv would have the
excitement of setting up a new tank? (It is exciting setting up a new
tank, isn't it? Well, it can be if the recent experience has robbed
him of its joy.)

dick

I've come up with a way of decomissioning the tank that should not
compromise anyones safety - although I will lose my Betta from the Kitchen
to another tank for a few days.

Providing we have no more losses before tomorrow night - lost another Barb
this morning :-( I will put the plan in action tomorrow when I get back from
work.

We will then tear down this "jinx tank" and start it all over.....I have a
pump/filter hanging about that is the same size which I will start cycling
in one of the "healthy" tanks as soon as I can remember where I put it.

Matt is quite excited about starting the tank again.....so here is hoping.
He's been promised a trip with my "plastic" to refurb it. Afterall it was
his fault I got into this hobby in the first place :-)

Gill


I have my fingers crossed. Action plans are good! Excitement is good!
Doing together is good! Losses are bad! :- ( Trip with plastic is
fun!

Hooray for Matt! He helped you find this wonderful way to spend time
and money and to share with each other.

I have a motorhome. After one bad trip, lots of things went wrong, I
told a friend, moaning about all the bad events. He responded that it
is great to have problems, they make for interesting tales. Easy
trips are not talked about or remembered.

dick



dick

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:46:39 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:28:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:27:16 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Derek Benson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:23:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Hi All,
This is really a continuation from the Sick Mollie in my son's
tank
and
subsequent loss of two Mollies last weekend. I did my normal
check
this
morning and now one of the Rosy Barbs is on her way out. Checked
the
water
pH 8 (normal for our tanks), 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates
are
at
5.

No new fish added for months. Tank has been running since last
August.

Tank is around 15UK galls. Current occupants are 1 mollie and 4
Rosy
Barbs
(around 10 inches of fish maximum). Plenty of plants. Water
changes
are
weekly 20-30%. We've had very few problems with this tank until
now.

I just can't figure out what is going on here or what to do
next.
If
the
remaining Rosy Barbs would be OK with Gouramis I suppose I could
move
them
and then strip down the tank - this is the only thing I can
think
of
for
now. But I hesitate because I don't want to risk infecting any
of
the
other
fish in the other tanks.

Does anyone have any clues as to what might be happening or what
I
can
do
next to keep the remaining fish?

Thanks
Gill


If I try to rule out causes of death based on your info and the
info
you've given to others: It doesn't appear to be a common parasite
like
Ich, or velvet because you see these on the fish. Internal
parasites,
worms or flagellates or whatever will usually show symptoms of
the
fish getting thinner, wasting away, the feces might be weird,
white
and stringy or no feces at all from the fish. So I rule out all
of
these.

I rule out poisoning be it from ammonia or nitrate or metals or
something weird gotten into the tank because the fish should show
signs of poisoning: breathing faster, panting at the surface or
at
the
bottom of the tank.

So what's left? I think your pH is a bit high, but if others want
to
say that it's fine for these fish I'll take their word for it. I
don't
pay much attention to pH anymore because where I live it's 7.0
out
of
the tap.

If it's bacterial in nature as Elaine suggests, the way it works,
as
I
understand it, is more or less like this. These bacteria which
can
cause illness, Aeromonas or Mycobacterium or whatever their names
are,
will always be present in your tank just like the bacteria you
want
in
the tank, the species which break down the ammonia and nitrites.
These
evil bacteria will grow in numbers if the tank is generally not
clean
enough. Keep these numbers down by vacuuming gravel and changing
water
more frequently and diluting out the little buggers. The gravel
in
this tank is vacuumed all the way to the bottom glass of the
tank? I
ask because I think these bacteria live and multiply down there
where
there is less oxygen in the water surrounding the gravel.

If this is a bacteria problem, I don't think these fish in the
tank
will infect fish in other tanks. The bacteria in question are
already
in the other tanks in certain numbers anyway. I think what I
would
do
is move all the fish in with the gouramis, and tear down this
tank
completely and start it over. If you decide to do this, after you
remove fish and plants pour in some chlorine bleach and stir up
the
gravel and wash it out the following day. Everything will be
killed/disinfected by the bleach.

-Derek

What you are saying is making total sense....apart from a slight
question
mark over a certain nephew deciding to over feed...I cannot think
of
anything else (he was here a few days before the Mollie decline and
again
a
couple of days ago). The gravel in this tank is not what I have in
the
others - it is more a pea gravel rather than the finer stuff I
normally
have
so harder to vaccum....maybe there is something trapped in there -
like
Hydrogen Sulphide.....

My son comes back tomorrow from his Dad's....he is already
disallusioned
and
thinking of giving up fish keeping based on the recent deaths....I
hope I
can keep him hanging in there....he truly did love it....

Gill


If he was of the age, would you keep an ex girl friend around
because
he once really liked her? Why not keep the tank for your own
interest
and let him move on? In my fast growing years (as in height) I
moved
through many interests. Here I am 60 years later picking up on one
of
those interests.

dick

I totally agree with you. I had a word with him about his tanks and
suggested even consolidating them into just one tank to make the
maintenance
easier for him (me in reality). The answer I got was "you're just
after
one
of my tanks". He wants to keep going he's just fed up with losing the
fish -
and I can't say that I blame him.

Here's hoping for happier times
Gill


How about buying a new tank to replace the jinx, then you could
experiment to your heart's desire and boy luv would have the
excitement of setting up a new tank? (It is exciting setting up a new
tank, isn't it? Well, it can be if the recent experience has robbed
him of its joy.)

dick

I've come up with a way of decomissioning the tank that should not
compromise anyones safety - although I will lose my Betta from the
Kitchen
to another tank for a few days.

Providing we have no more losses before tomorrow night - lost another
Barb
this morning :-( I will put the plan in action tomorrow when I get back
from
work.

We will then tear down this "jinx tank" and start it all over.....I have
a
pump/filter hanging about that is the same size which I will start
cycling
in one of the "healthy" tanks as soon as I can remember where I put it.

Matt is quite excited about starting the tank again.....so here is
hoping.
He's been promised a trip with my "plastic" to refurb it. Afterall it was
his fault I got into this hobby in the first place :-)

Gill


I have my fingers crossed. Action plans are good! Excitement is good!
Doing together is good! Losses are bad! :- ( Trip with plastic is
fun!

Hooray for Matt! He helped you find this wonderful way to spend time
and money and to share with each other.

I have a motorhome. After one bad trip, lots of things went wrong, I
told a friend, moaning about all the bad events. He responded that it
is great to have problems, they make for interesting tales. Easy
trips are not talked about or remembered.

dick



dick

It has to be said that I never considered how much fish would open up the
world of communication outside of my own circle of friends - this is another
plus :-)

On the downside I lost one of my Rusty cichlids today (and actually a yellow
lab last week) - the difference with those losses is I know why they died
(the yellow lab never grew and got thinner) the Rusty had become quite
chubby like she had a lot of eggs and from the look of her it could have
been a spawning incident - either that or she was bloated or had
parasites.... I guess it has just been a very bad fish fortnight :-(

On the plus side the two Rosy Barbs and one remaining Mollie are looking
fine for now - action plan still in place I will get them moved asap. The 3
fry in the Malawi tank are around 1cm big now...and I can almost identify
one of them from it's markings....my main community tank is finally doing
well with the algae war (unlike the Malawi that I have to clean 3 times a
week at the moment - don't think it worries the fish though). And yes, Matt
is excited about his new venture. Pluses outweigh the negatives but it is
still hard to lose fish without understanding why...

Gill

"Dick" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 May 2005 22:46:39 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 May 2005 17:28:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Dick" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:27:16 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:


"Derek Benson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:23:31 +0100, "Gill Passman"
gillspamattaylorpassmanspam.co.uk wrote:

Hi All,
This is really a continuation from the Sick Mollie in my son's
tank
and
subsequent loss of two Mollies last weekend. I did my normal
check
this
morning and now one of the Rosy Barbs is on her way out. Checked
the
water
pH 8 (normal for our tanks), 0 Ammonia and Nitrites and Nitrates
are
at
5.

No new fish added for months. Tank has been running since last
August.

Tank is around 15UK galls. Current occupants are 1 mollie and 4
Rosy
Barbs
(around 10 inches of fish maximum). Plenty of plants. Water
changes
are
weekly 20-30%. We've had very few problems with this tank until
now.

I just can't figure out what is going on here or what to do
next.
If
the
remaining Rosy Barbs would be OK with Gouramis I suppose I could
move
them
and then strip down the tank - this is the only thing I can
think
of
for
now. But I hesitate because I don't want to risk infecting any
of
the
other
fish in the other tanks.

Does anyone have any clues as to what might be happening or what
I
can
do
next to keep the remaining fish?

Thanks
Gill


If I try to rule out causes of death based on your info and the
info
you've given to others: It doesn't appear to be a common parasite
like
Ich, or velvet because you see these on the fish. Internal
parasites,
worms or flagellates or whatever will usually show symptoms of
the
fish getting thinner, wasting away, the feces might be weird,
white
and stringy or no feces at all from the fish. So I rule out all
of
these.

I rule out poisoning be it from ammonia or nitrate or metals or
something weird gotten into the tank because the fish should show
signs of poisoning: breathing faster, panting at the surface or
at
the
bottom of the tank.

So what's left? I think your pH is a bit high, but if others want
to
say that it's fine for these fish I'll take their word for it. I
don't
pay much attention to pH anymore because where I live it's 7.0
out
of
the tap.

If it's bacterial in nature as Elaine suggests, the way it works,
as
I
understand it, is more or less like this. These bacteria which
can
cause illness, Aeromonas or Mycobacterium or whatever their names
are,
will always be present in your tank just like the bacteria you
want
in
the tank, the species which break down the ammonia and nitrites.
These
evil bacteria will grow in numbers if the tank is generally not
clean
enough. Keep these numbers down by vacuuming gravel and changing
water
more frequently and diluting out the little buggers. The gravel
in
this tank is vacuumed all the way to the bottom glass of the
tank? I
ask because I think these bacteria live and multiply down there
where
there is less oxygen in the water surrounding the gravel.

If this is a bacteria problem, I don't think these fish in the
tank
will infect fish in other tanks. The bacteria in question are
already
in the other tanks in certain numbers anyway. I think what I
would
do
is move all the fish in with the gouramis, and tear down this
tank
completely and start it over. If you decide to do this, after you
remove fish and plants pour in some chlorine bleach and stir up
the
gravel and wash it out the following day. Everything will be
killed/disinfected by the bleach.

-Derek

What you are saying is making total sense....apart from a slight
question
mark over a certain nephew deciding to over feed...I cannot think
of
anything else (he was here a few days before the Mollie decline and
again
a
couple of days ago). The gravel in this tank is not what I have in
the
others - it is more a pea gravel rather than the finer stuff I
normally
have
so harder to vaccum....maybe there is something trapped in there -
like
Hydrogen Sulphide.....

My son comes back tomorrow from his Dad's....he is already
disallusioned
and
thinking of giving up fish keeping based on the recent deaths....I
hope I
can keep him hanging in there....he truly did love it....

Gill


If he was of the age, would you keep an ex girl friend around
because
he once really liked her? Why not keep the tank for your own
interest
and let him move on? In my fast growing years (as in height) I
moved
through many interests. Here I am 60 years later picking up on one
of
those interests.

dick

I totally agree with you. I had a word with him about his tanks and
suggested even consolidating them into just one tank to make the
maintenance
easier for him (me in reality). The answer I got was "you're just
after
one
of my tanks". He wants to keep going he's just fed up with losing the
fish -
and I can't say that I blame him.

Here's hoping for happier times
Gill


How about buying a new tank to replace the jinx, then you could
experiment to your heart's desire and boy luv would have the
excitement of setting up a new tank? (It is exciting setting up a new
tank, isn't it? Well, it can be if the recent experience has robbed
him of its joy.)

dick

I've come up with a way of decomissioning the tank that should not
compromise anyones safety - although I will lose my Betta from the
Kitchen
to another tank for a few days.

Providing we have no more losses before tomorrow night - lost another
Barb
this morning :-( I will put the plan in action tomorrow when I get back
from
work.

We will then tear down this "jinx tank" and start it all over.....I have
a
pump/filter hanging about that is the same size which I will start
cycling
in one of the "healthy" tanks as soon as I can remember where I put it.

Matt is quite excited about starting the tank again.....so here is
hoping.
He's been promised a trip with my "plastic" to refurb it. Afterall it was
his fault I got into this hobby in the first place :-)

Gill


I have my fingers crossed. Action plans are good! Excitement is good!
Doing together is good! Losses are bad! :- ( Trip with plastic is
fun!

Hooray for Matt! He helped you find this wonderful way to spend time
and money and to share with each other.

I have a motorhome. After one bad trip, lots of things went wrong, I
told a friend, moaning about all the bad events. He responded that it
is great to have problems, they make for interesting tales. Easy
trips are not talked about or remembered.

dick



dick

You stirred up all sorts of memories with you "motorhome" analogy.....last
year we rented a mobile home in France - ferry cancelled, 12 hour drive to
get there once we got an alternative, had to return a day early....great
place - daughter sick for most of the time :-( but not a holiday we will
forget in a hurry....all others blend into one. (those with no events)...and
yes when the times were good (daughter got better, Matt's birthday and
presenting him with the photos of his newly fishless set up tank which he
had wanted for years) absolutely priceless. Plus when discussing with my
American colleagues at work their absolute horror that Europeans go to a
"Trailer Park" for their holidays and find it fun....the differences in
culture are always a source of fascination both for me and them (and boy we
have long conversations on this)

Being philosphical (and yes a bit depressed hence my latest posting) .....
keeping fish reflects life - there are ups and downs.....the pluses outweigh
the minuses....but sometimes you just need to rally (as Matt has learnt).
And it is really great to know that there are people out there that care
enough to respond :-)

Gill