bettas in plastic cups

Koi-lo wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

With all the betta discussion lately, can someone tell me about bettas
in plastic cups? Why are they offered for sale this way?


## Because they can't mix bettas together in one bag as they do the
other types of fish. It's the most economical way to ship them. There
doesn't seem to be an laws or rules regarding the care and welfare of
fish. There should be but there isn't from what I can see. The real
abuse comes in when they reach the stores or pet-shops where they are
not properly cared for or fed. They sit in their filthy water until it
evaporates and they die, or the toxic waste in the small container kills
them. Wal*Mart stores carry them in much larger containers but they're
just as filthy and foul smelling. The female I bought a few weeks ago
was literally in a cesspool of filth.

The losses must

be great and the fish don't look attractive for purchase.


## This is true in some chain-stores where the workers are either
clueless or couldn't care less. About 10% of them were already dead in
a store I visited yesterday. Some were already decomposed in their
filthy containers. Talk about cruelty. Those in PetsMart were in pretty
good shape but in very small cups.

Also, when do the fish go into the plastic cups? Is it for transport,
or are they raised in there? Thanks for any information.


## That would depend on what breeder they got them from. They must be
separated at some point to keep the finnage from being marred so the
breeders have to house them in something. I'm sure the big breeders
have some type of flow-through systems now. No one is changing the
water in thousands of small containers or jars. Those I saw years ago
utilized all types of glass containers. Most held no more than 2 cups
of water. They were "bagged" the day they were taken to the stores.
The stores in that area put them in those small ivy bowls that hold
about 8 oz of water. If the betta was lucky his new owner put him in
something larger. Unfortunately I saw people buy the same tiny ivy bowls
to keep them in - no gravel, no plants. I always felt the fish was
going to his death. But I've had people tell me they had bettas live
several years in such small bowls. Now I believe most bettas are
imported. So they're probably in those small cups for a few days by the
time they reach the pet stores. One store here puts the bettas in a
filtered betta tank that has partitions and a flow-through filter system
of some kind.
I stopped breeding them back in the late 60s because there wasn't enough
of a market, nor did I get enough per fish to make it worth while, plus
I had a full time job - so I gave it up. I enjoyed it while I did it
though. :-)

Thanks, that's informative. As mentioned to another poster, I haven't
had great success with bettas. The single male bettas I kept in approx
15 gal community aquariums with other small fish each lasted about 9mo
to 1 year. The one I recently kept by itself in a heated, planted,
unfiltered 2 gallon aquarium lasted about 1.5 years. This raises a
couple of questions:

Are bettas relatively old when shipped, and expected to live only
another year?

Are bettas healthier and happier when kept by themselves?

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve

i keep mine in a 120 with tiger barbs and a few other aggressive fish.
the key is to grow plants to the top so they always have safe spots
and can swim unnoticed. occasionally when exploring you may see your
betta rush back to his plants. until the plants grow in you may hang a
large ordiment from the top, which also gives your betta good
protection in community tanks.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:15:11 -0500, Steve wrote:

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve


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dddd wrote:
i keep mine in a 120 with tiger barbs and a few other aggressive fish.
the key is to grow plants to the top so they always have safe spots
and can swim unnoticed. occasionally when exploring you may see your
betta rush back to his plants. until the plants grow in you may hang a
large ordiment from the top, which also gives your betta good
protection in community tanks.


Thanks. My giant Val grow all over the tank surface, so maybe I'll try a
betta and see how it goes. The only problem is, I have nowhere suitable
to put the betta if it doesn't work out. The 2 gal aquarium is now a
snail-raising tank and too stinky for fish .

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:15:11 -0500, Steve wrote:


Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve



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barbs eat betta fins dude.


dddd wrote in message ...
i keep mine in a 120 with tiger barbs and a few other aggressive fish.
the key is to grow plants to the top so they always have safe spots
and can swim unnoticed. occasionally when exploring you may see your
betta rush back to his plants. until the plants grow in you may hang a
large ordiment from the top, which also gives your betta good
protection in community tanks.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:15:11 -0500, Steve wrote:

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon
aquarium? I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

Steve


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----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

Thanks, that's informative. As mentioned to another poster, I haven't had
great success with bettas. The single male bettas I kept in approx 15 gal
community aquariums with other small fish each lasted about 9mo to 1 year.
The one I recently kept by itself in a heated, planted, unfiltered 2
gallon aquarium lasted about 1.5 years. This raises a couple of questions:

Are bettas relatively old when shipped, and expected to live only another
year?

## Some dishonest breeders do sell off their old stock rather than uthanize
the unwanted fish. So yes, you can get an OLD fish if you are not careful.
Buy only smaller YOUNG males and females. You will learn to tell the
difference if you examine them closely. Young fish are smaller and their
fins shorter although their color should still be bright and clear.

Are bettas healthier and happier when kept by themselves?

## In my experience they are! There is no competition for food, and no
nipped fins among other things. Some are too aggressive to live in
community tanks. Some community tanks have too much current for bettas who
prefers calm water. Smaller faster fish may get most of the food and the
current wears down the betta, shortening it's life. Those that live the
longest of me have been in 1 quart to 2 gallon UNHEATED tanks. I believe
heating them to 80 F speeds their life processes and shortens their lives.
I can't prove this - it's just been my experience with the bettas I've had
over the years. I only heated the breeding tanks and young fry.

Might a male betta make a wise addition to my planted 90 gallon aquarium?

## You can add one but I would never put a valued betta in a community tank.
Others will disagree. Try it and see if it works for you. You can always
remove him if there's a problem. Not only can bettas be aggressive to
others but other fish sometimes nip at their long fins ruining their looks
and possibly causing a fungus or bacterial infection. I keep mine alone
but where they can see each other and see what's going on in this part of
the house. Mine are in everything from 1 qt bowls to a filtered, planted 2
gallon display tank. All have gravel and a few small water lettuce in their
homes. Someone e-mailed me that Dollar General sells clear glass cookie
jars that hold 1 gallon of water, with a plastic lid (can punch air holes)
for $1.50 each. I plan to check these out next week. If I can get them for
around that price where I live I'll move them all to the gallon cookie jars.
:-)

I suspect not, because it has two male blue gourami (possible
fighting?) and some fast swimmers such as zebra danios, dwarf neon
rainbowfish and one large "miscellaneous" rainbowfish that came in with
the dwarfs.

## Speaking for myself - I would rather keep valued bettas alone.

Steve
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Ditto on the life expectency related to temperature. My bettas in
heated, 75 degree tanks, lived about 2 years from when I hatched them
from eggs. My girlfriend's, who were all in an unheated 10 gallon
tank, are all still alive. The mom of the bettas is now in her 4th
year in a 1 gallon unheated tank (68F/20C) and still quite active and
healthy. She's been fed only four betta pellets per day for most of
her life, which at first I thought was too little, but who am I to say
since hers has outlived most of my current fish.

Keep them separate and unheated for longer life. I personally think
they are fine in cups for short periods of time (ie. in a fish store),
and the liveliness and longevity of my gf's is testiment that smallish
1 gallon tanks are fine.

I keep females in a community tank now, and the hardest part is keeping
the other fish from stealing their pellets (which is a problem, since
my bettas don't eat flakes; only pellets).

tim

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ditto on the life expectency related to temperature. My bettas in
heated, 75 degree tanks, lived about 2 years from when I hatched them
from eggs. My girlfriend's, who were all in an unheated 10 gallon
tank, are all still alive. The mom of the bettas is now in her 4th
year in a 1 gallon unheated tank (68F/20C) and still quite active and
healthy.

## See! I have heard this before from other bettaphiles. I have no idea
why some people believe they need so much heat to thrive. It just isn't
true. :-)

She's been fed only four betta pellets per day for most of
her life, which at first I thought was too little, but who am I to say
since hers has outlived most of my current fish.

## Exactly. Each fish and each fish's living conditions are different.
Since hers are unheated that is probably enough food whereas a heated betta,
with a speeded up metabolism, would need more food. I've been looking the
thermometer in the betta bowls on the windowsill. They range from 72F in
the morning to 76 later in the day when the filtered sunlight hits the jars.
Mine are fed twice a day using a variety of dried betta foods. I may buy
them some frozen glassworms and bloodworms on my next trip to the pet store.
I know my Mickey Mouse platties would love them as well. :-)

Keep them separate and unheated for longer life. I personally think
they are fine in cups for short periods of time (ie. in a fish store),
and the liveliness and longevity of my gf's is testiment that smallish
1 gallon tanks are fine.

## I assure they are - as long as they are not neglected, but changed
regularly. I use aged water to do this so as not to kill off the nitrifying
bacteria in the gravel and on the water lettuce.

I keep females in a community tank now, and the hardest part is keeping
the other fish from stealing their pellets (which is a problem, since
my bettas don't eat flakes; only pellets).

## This is another reason I stopped keeping bettas in community tanks years
ago. They never really thrived as the other fish always beat them to the
choicest morsels of food, there was the current from the filters, the
harassment by the other fish who would take nips at even the female bettas
fins etc.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ditto on the life expectency related to temperature. My bettas in
heated, 75 degree tanks, lived about 2 years from when I hatched them
from eggs. My girlfriend's, who were all in an unheated 10 gallon
tank, are all still alive. The mom of the bettas is now in her 4th
year in a 1 gallon unheated tank (68F/20C) and still quite active and
healthy. She's been fed only four betta pellets per day for most of
her life, which at first I thought was too little, but who am I to say
since hers has outlived most of my current fish.

That's an interesting observation. It lacks the scientific rigour that I
always like to look for, but it's rare to see controlled experiments on
fish, (especially longevity). In theory, longevity can be decreased by
increasing the temperature (higher metabolism), but this assumes all
other factors are equal, and you are moving away from their optimal
temperature range. If my texts are correct and their range is 70-90F,
breeds at 80F, then they are more likely to be outside their optimal
range in an unheated tank than in an overheated tank. Another variable
is the lower O2 levels in small heated tanks, but again the Betta throws
a wrench into this with their labyrinth organ. I wonder if genetics,
maintenance and not over-feeding are more critical to longevity than the
water's temperature.

Keep them separate and unheated for longer life. I personally think
they are fine in cups for short periods of time (ie. in a fish store),

I agree, but this time from experience. Two weeks in a cup didn't seem
to phase them, and while many do very well in a community tank, many also
do very well in relative isolation.

and the liveliness and longevity of my gf's is testiment that smallish
1 gallon tanks are fine.

I wouldn't think the words longevity could be used in the same sentence
as a 1g tank when talking about GF. Goldfish are very long lived, 10-20
years is not unusual. I cannot imagine that occuring in a small
container. Actually this has now become illegal in several parts of the
world.

I keep females in a community tank now, and the hardest part is keeping
the other fish from stealing their pellets (which is a problem, since
my bettas don't eat flakes; only pellets).

I rather like female Bettas. Basically identical in personality, colors
& behavior, but tolerant of each other in the right set-up. Probably
under-rated as compared to the males. I used to keep 20-30 of them in a
planted 60g.
--
www.NetMax.tk

tim

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .
wrote in message
oups.com...

and the liveliness and longevity of my gf's is testiment that smallish
1 gallon tanks are fine.

I wouldn't think the words longevity could be used in the same sentence as
a 1g tank when talking about GF. Goldfish are very long lived, 10-20
years is not unusual. I cannot imagine that occuring in a small
container. Actually this has now become illegal in several parts of the
world.
========================
I believe he means his GIRLFRIEND'S not his goldfishes when he used gf's.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

wrote in message
oups.com...

and the liveliness and longevity of my gf's is testiment that smallish
1 gallon tanks are fine.


I wouldn't think the words longevity could be used in the same
sentence as a 1g tank when talking about GF. Goldfish are very long
lived, 10-20 years is not unusual. I cannot imagine that occuring in
a small container. Actually this has now become illegal in several
parts of the world.

========================
I believe he means his GIRLFRIEND'S not his goldfishes when he used gf's.

I read "gf" as goldfish too . Perhaps this shows where some of our
(aquarists') priorities a fish over romance?
Steve