Resilience of fish

I repeat, there is no ammonia or nitrite in my tanks.

If that were actually true, you would have no algae at all. What
food do you suppose that algae grows on?

My water is very hard
and very alkaline. The store waters are soft and around neutral if not
slightly acid.

Same here. I just dump them in. No losses.

--
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Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
I repeat, there is no ammonia or nitrite in my tanks.

If that were actually true, you would have no algae at all.

I still get a reading of zero on both. I would have sick and dying
goldfish, platy's, ottos and plecos if I had measurable amounts of ammonia
and or nitrites in my tanks. I haven't lost even one little otto. All are
thriving and visibly growing, especially the plecos.

What
food do you suppose that algae grows on?

I will assume it grabs the ammonia before it's converted or immediatly after
since I get a zero on Ammonia and nitrite both. Nitrate stays around 20 ppm
(no matter how many plants I've added) so I assume the plants and whatever
algae are in these tanks are keeping the ammonia down to zero. However I
can't stop them from producing ammonia.

My water is very hard
and very alkaline. The store waters are soft and around neutral if not
slightly acid.

Same here. I just dump them in. No losses.

No thanks. I'll take the safe route I've been taking and acclimate them for
a zero death rate. I have to go by my own experiences.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
food do you suppose that algae grows on?

I will assume it grabs the ammonia before it's converted or immediatly after
since I get a zero on Ammonia and nitrite both. Nitrate stays around 20 ppm
(no matter how many plants I've added) so I assume the plants and whatever
algae are in these tanks are keeping the ammonia down to zero. However I
can't stop them from producing ammonia.

If you put your hand in the gravel and stir it up, right down to the bottom,
what happens?


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Moments before spontaneously combusting Richard Sexton at
was heard opining:

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
food do you suppose that algae grows on?

I will assume it grabs the ammonia before it's converted or
immediatly after since I get a zero on Ammonia and nitrite both.
Nitrate stays around 20 ppm (no matter how many plants I've added)
so I assume the plants and whatever algae are in these tanks are
keeping the ammonia down to zero. However I can't stop them from
producing ammonia.

If you put your hand in the gravel and stir it up, right down to the
bottom, what happens?
=========================
Not much since the gravel gets vacuumed with every water change. Some mulm
flies up... then settles back down.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
If you put your hand in the gravel and stir it up, right down to the
bottom, what happens?
=========================
Not much since the gravel gets vacuumed with every water change. Some mulm
flies up... then settles back down.

So there's fecal material in the tank, black algae that only grows
in old tanks, a perpetual 20ppm nitrate level and you can't figure
out what's wrong ?

I understand you don't think you're doing anything wrong, but you
can't really say it's working for you, can you?

It's almost like it's a metaphor.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Moments before spontaneously combusting Richard Sexton at
was heard opining:

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
If you put your hand in the gravel and stir it up, right down to the
bottom, what happens?
=========================
Not much since the gravel gets vacuumed with every water change.
Some mulm flies up... then settles back down.

So there's fecal material in the tank,

What tank containing fish contains NO MULM? Especially tanks with goldfish?
Every tank containing fish will have some mulm. To have no mulm you would
have to remove all the fish and plants (before they drop a leaf). You then
have an empty tank of gravel and water and zero mulm. Not a very
interesting set-up to watch.

black algae that only grows
in old tanks,

The tank it started in was set up less than 6 months ago (last November,
before Thanksgiving) and has had constant gravel vacuuming and water changes
including being Vortexed each time. That comes to about every 10 days.
It's not possible to have cleaner tanks than these considering the amount of
plants to vac around. It hasn't invaded the oldest platy tanks and Q tank
which were set up well over a year ago. They have some green algae. The
second and third tanks it started to spread in were set up last November
also. The other tanks had none of this algae at all. All get the same
care, have the same filters and get the same number of partial water
changes.

a perpetual 20ppm nitrate level and you can't figure
out what's wrong ?

Sure I can. What went wrong was I added fish to these tanks. Fish poop,
plants drop bits into the water column - those are facts of life in
aquariums. Where there are fish there is going to nitrates. How many tanks
containing fish and plants have a zero nitrate level? Of course you'll
claim yours are zero because you keep 3 or 4 neon's in a 55g tank. Are you
suggesting I purchase some kind of expensive nitrate remover now or get rid
of the fish?

I understand you don't think you're doing anything wrong,

Of course I did WONG - I added fish to the tanks and fish produce nitrates.
;-) If I remove the fish = no more nitrates, no more algae and eventually
no more plants either = presto = empty tanks of gravel and rocks but no
nitrates and no black algae either. ;-)

but you
can't really say it's working for you, can you?

Of course it's working for me. What's not working? Not one fish has died
from that algae and they're showing signs of sexual maturity now and will
probably breed before I can get most of them outside next month. So what's
NOT working for me?

It's almost like it's a metaphor.

I don't know how that's related to fish producing nitrates.........
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
Moments before spontaneously combusting Richard Sexton at
was heard opining:

In article ,
Koi-Lo wrote:
If you put your hand in the gravel and stir it up, right down to the
bottom, what happens?
=========================
Not much since the gravel gets vacuumed with every water change.
Some mulm flies up... then settles back down.

So there's fecal material in the tank,

What tank containing fish contains NO MULM? Especially tanks with goldfish?
Every tank containing fish will have some mulm. To have no mulm you would
have to remove all the fish and plants (before they drop a leaf). You then
have an empty tank of gravel and water and zero mulm. Not a very
interesting set-up to watch.

Uh, no, you'd have no gravel, put plants in pots and siphon of the
fecal matter once a day. Poeple so so this.

black algae that only grows
in old tanks,

The tank it started in was set up less than 6 months ago (last November,
before Thanksgiving) and has had constant gravel vacuuming and water changes
including being Vortexed each time. That comes to about every 10 days.
It's not possible to have cleaner tanks than these considering the amount of
plants to vac around. It hasn't invaded the oldest platy tanks and Q tank
which were set up well over a year ago. They have some green algae. The
second and third tanks it started to spread in were set up last November
also. The other tanks had none of this algae at all. All get the same
care, have the same filters and get the same number of partial water
changes

his doesn't change the fact black algae only grow ni old tanks. 6 mos is old.

You have a source of accumuated wastes you're ignoring soimeplace. Im betting it's in the gravel.


a perpetual 20ppm nitrate level and you can't figure
out what's wrong ?

Sure I can. What went wrong was I added fish to these tanks. Fish poop,
plants drop bits into the water column - those are facts of life in
aquariums. Where there are fish there is going to nitrates. How many tanks
containing fish and plants have a zero nitrate level? Of course you'll
claim yours are zero because you keep 3 or 4 neon's in a 55g tank. Are you
suggesting I purchase some kind of expensive nitrate remover now or get rid
of the fish?

Carol the onversion of fish wate to nitrate is not instant. To have 20ppm
of nitrate you must have enough ammonia to feed the bugs to make that nitrate.

The ammonia is what's feeding your algae regardless of what your test kit
tells you!

I understand you don't think you're doing anything wrong,

Of course I did WONG - I added fish to the tanks and fish produce nitrates.
;-) If I remove the fish = no more nitrates, no more algae and eventually
no more plants either = presto = empty tanks of gravel and rocks but no
nitrates and no black algae either. ;-)

Fish don't produce nitrates. They produce ammonia which produce nitrites which
produce nitrates.

Sinece you aren't cleaning the gravel enough, get rid of it. Use java moss instead
as a substrate, it will eat all the wastes if the population density is low
enough. Yu'll need to siphon the rest out.

but you
can't really say it's working for you, can you?

Of course it's working for me. What's not working

You're complaing in 87 posts about this black algae. I'm telling ou how
to get rid of it.

Without getting rid of all that fecal matter the dead black alage will just provide
food for other alge, although how you cangrow green alage inthe presence of excel
is beyond me. I can't doit.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net