Hornwort clogging up tank?

In article ,
Daniel Morrow wrote:
I have a ton of hornwort growing in one of my tanks (the silver dollars, 1
angel fish, a couple white cloud mountain minnows, and a ton of fancy
guppies) and have noticed female guppies and a couple of male fancy guppies
possibly getting stuck in the mass of hornwort. I haven't actually witnessed
any thing except for the occasional fancy guppy death which I previously
attributed to other causes. Is it possible that any of my fish are getting
caught in the hornwort and that that causes them to die (starvation?)?

No.

Should I just rip out a chunk of the hornwort once in a while and throw it
out in the trash afterward (the hornwort dies off in my other tanks and I
don't know why and if I keep adding the spare hornwort I am afraid of water
pollution from doing that as the plants would die off in the other tanks and
cause excessive dissolved organic compounds and who knows what else)?

Hornwort dies when it runs out of food or light, athough it doesn't
need much light. Add some aquatic plant fertilizer containing nitrate.

--
My only working email address is on my home page
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Bottom posted.
Richard Sexton wrote:
In article ,
Daniel Morrow wrote:
I have a ton of hornwort growing in one of my tanks (the silver
dollars, 1 angel fish, a couple white cloud mountain minnows, and a
ton of fancy guppies) and have noticed female guppies and a couple
of male fancy guppies possibly getting stuck in the mass of
hornwort. I haven't actually witnessed any thing except for the
occasional fancy guppy death which I previously attributed to other
causes. Is it possible that any of my fish are getting caught in the
hornwort and that that causes them to die (starvation?)?

No.

Should I just rip out a chunk of the hornwort once in a while and
throw it out in the trash afterward (the hornwort dies off in my
other tanks and I don't know why and if I keep adding the spare
hornwort I am afraid of water pollution from doing that as the
plants would die off in the other tanks and cause excessive
dissolved organic compounds and who knows what else)?

Hornwort dies when it runs out of food or light, athough it doesn't
need much light. Add some aquatic plant fertilizer containing nitrate.

Thanks Altum, dc, koi-lo and richard sexton! I am going to rip a bunch out
from time to time so at the very least my silver dollars and soon to be
physically mature angelfish can swim around decently, and it might help the
fancy guppies to keep them from getting stuck (just in case only as the
consensus here seems to be that fish will always be able to find their way
out of the mass of hornwort) and I will put the ripped out hornwort in the
compost pile. Thanks all - and I think you are probably right koi-lo, the
guppies might be taxing their environment here by over breeding. My water
quality isn't perfect nowadays probably because of overcrowding of the fish
thanks to the fancy guppies breeding so much (but that shouldn't happen for
much longer as from what I have read on the web angelfish are excellent
guppy fry eaters and my angelfish will most likely be big enough to help
with that soon I think I hope). Nitrite is borderline and nitrate is way too
high. Every other parameter is fine except for maybe the ph being at 6.5.
Ripping out the hornwort should cause more to grow and thus more nitrate to
be removed in the process. Thanks again - good luck and later!

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:40:23 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
wrote:

Bottom posted.
Richard Sexton wrote:
In article ,
Daniel Morrow wrote:
I have a ton of hornwort growing in one of my tanks (the silver
dollars, 1 angel fish, a couple white cloud mountain minnows, and a
ton of fancy guppies) and have noticed female guppies and a couple
of male fancy guppies possibly getting stuck in the mass of
hornwort. I haven't actually witnessed any thing except for the
occasional fancy guppy death which I previously attributed to other
causes. Is it possible that any of my fish are getting caught in the
hornwort and that that causes them to die (starvation?)?

No.

Should I just rip out a chunk of the hornwort once in a while and
throw it out in the trash afterward (the hornwort dies off in my
other tanks and I don't know why and if I keep adding the spare
hornwort I am afraid of water pollution from doing that as the
plants would die off in the other tanks and cause excessive
dissolved organic compounds and who knows what else)?

Hornwort dies when it runs out of food or light, athough it doesn't
need much light. Add some aquatic plant fertilizer containing nitrate.

Thanks Altum, dc, koi-lo and richard sexton! I am going to rip a bunch out
from time to time so at the very least my silver dollars and soon to be
physically mature angelfish can swim around decently, and it might help the
fancy guppies to keep them from getting stuck (just in case only as the
consensus here seems to be that fish will always be able to find their way
out of the mass of hornwort) and I will put the ripped out hornwort in the
compost pile. Thanks all - and I think you are probably right koi-lo, the
guppies might be taxing their environment here by over breeding. My water
quality isn't perfect nowadays probably because of overcrowding of the fish
thanks to the fancy guppies breeding so much (but that shouldn't happen for
much longer as from what I have read on the web angelfish are excellent
guppy fry eaters and my angelfish will most likely be big enough to help
with that soon I think I hope). Nitrite is borderline and nitrate is way too
high. Every other parameter is fine except for maybe the ph being at 6.5.
Ripping out the hornwort should cause more to grow and thus more nitrate to
be removed in the process. Thanks again - good luck and later!

The compost heap! Too bad. It's great to have a little on hand for a
quick water cleaner upper. I should have you send me some before it
gets added to the list of banned plants in my state. It seems to have
those qualities most likely to get it blacklisted soon.

-- Mister Gardener

Moments before spontaneously combusting Mr. Gardener at
was heard opining:
The compost heap! Too bad. It's great to have a little on hand for a
quick water cleaner upper. I should have you send me some before it
gets added to the list of banned plants in my state. It seems to have
those qualities most likely to get it blacklisted soon.
====================
It probably will be added soon. It should live over the winter in Maine.
It's lived through the coldest winter's we've had with both ice and snow
covering the ponds and pools. Since it needs no rest period will live year
round in aquariums. Or mine did until this past winter.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Mid posted.

Koi-Lo wrote:
Moments before spontaneously combusting Mr. Gardener at
was heard opining:
The compost heap! Too bad.

I know - it seems like a waste except as it grows it eats nitrates among
other things and it grows so fast in this one tank that it will be a good
thing in the long run to compost it and let it regrow and eat those danged
nitrates. If you want me to send you some and you are patient and you cover
my expenses and it doesn't get banned too early I will send you a bunch if
you want after it regrows - keep it in mind as I like to help people and be
proactive in general. I think you and koi-lo are probably right that it will
soon be banned in maine especially after I read your post and the banned
list it contains.

It's great to have a little on hand for a
quick water cleaner upper. I should have you send me some before it
gets added to the list of banned plants in my state. It seems to have
those qualities most likely to get it blacklisted soon.
====================
It probably will be added soon. It should live over the winter in
Maine. It's lived through the coldest winter's we've had with both
ice and snow covering the ponds and pools. Since it needs no rest
period will live year round in aquariums. Or mine did until this
past winter.

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:44:16 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
wrote:

Mid posted.

Koi-Lo wrote:
Moments before spontaneously combusting Mr. Gardener at
was heard opining:
The compost heap! Too bad.

I know - it seems like a waste except as it grows it eats nitrates among
other things and it grows so fast in this one tank that it will be a good
thing in the long run to compost it and let it regrow and eat those danged
nitrates. If you want me to send you some and you are patient and you cover
my expenses and it doesn't get banned too early I will send you a bunch if
you want after it regrows - keep it in mind as I like to help people and be
proactive in general. I think you and koi-lo are probably right that it will
soon be banned in maine especially after I read your post and the banned
list it contains.

(Picture of big smiley face goes here) No need to confuse the post
office contraband sniffing dogs. They have more important work to do.
And I think the compost heap is great, if you truly have a compost
heap and use it in your garden.

-- Mister Gardener

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
(Picture of big smiley face goes here) No need to confuse the post
office contraband sniffing dogs. They have more important work to do.
And I think the compost heap is great, if you truly have a compost
heap and use it in your garden.
=====================
If you want to see tropical houseplants as well as tomatoes thrive, start
watering them with the water from partial water changes, complete with the
mulm vacuumed from the gravel.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Daniel Morrow at was heard opining:

Nitrite is
borderline and nitrate is way too high.

The hornwart should have taken care of nitrates. It sounds like your tank
needs a lot of partial water changes and some good gravel vaccing.

Every other parameter is fine
except for maybe the ph being at 6.5.

I found keeping guppies alive and healthy takes water with a PH over 7.
They do much better in harder more alkaline water. In a PH below 7.2 an in
slightly acid water they don't do nearly as well. Anyway, that's been my
experience with guppies and other live bearers.

Ripping out the hornwort should
cause more to grow and thus more nitrate to be removed in the
process.

That can happen! :-) I'm surprised it's growing so well for you as it
didn't thrive for me in NY's soft slightly acid water. I just had an odd
thing happen with hornwart. After having it for many years, both indoors
and in my ponds - about 90% of it suddenly did a die-off! I once read about
bamboo doing the same thing. I suppose it'll spring back from the small
bits I have left of it....... if not I'll have to start with a fresh bunch.

Thanks again - good luck and later!
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Mid posted.
Koi-Lo wrote:
Daniel Morrow at was heard opining:

Nitrite is
borderline and nitrate is way too high.

The hornwart should have taken care of nitrates. It sounds like your
tank needs a lot of partial water changes and some good gravel
vaccing.

I think plants eat more nitrates as they grow/regrow so me throwing a chunk
of it in the compost heap once in a while and letting it regrow will cause
the effect of the plants eating the nitrates much more
effectively/efficiently. Thanks for reminding me of these things - I already
knew that more water changes and gravel vaccing is what I should do except
in my case as far as nitrates go - they never go away or even measure any
less with my test kits. With my test kits (tetra, seachem) the nitrates are
sky high even a day after a 40%+ water change. Go figure. I have kind of
given up on extra water changes as it so far has made no significant
difference, and I have heard the nitrate test kits (at the very least the
affordable ones) are flawed so I plan on doing what I know for me is
standard maintenance and not changing 40% of the water every other day with
no significant change noticed. Summary - about a month ago one of my silver
dollars got caught between the mass of hornwort and one heater (I felt
terrible for not noticing in time and I deservedly felt stupid for not
anticipating this since I used to always unplug my heaters when lowering
(changing) water but recently stopped unplugging them since I thought the
auto-shut of feature would prevent burns but I learned in this case the
auto-shutoff prevents damage to the heater - not any unlucky fish (in other
words the heater gets hot enough to burn fish still even with the auto-shut
off feature) and that silver dollar experienced one big bad burn,
fortunately I changed water like mad after that until recently and I truly
believe because of my excellent results (the silver dollar is completely
healed except for the last layer of its flesh and even that seems to be
healing over good now, at it's worst in the past bones were showing
(equivalent of a rib cage) the water changes are like what the experienced
users here say they are - the one overall best medicine. I never used
medicine to treat the silver dollar and it appears he/she will be 100% soon
and right now is at like 98%. I never used medicine for it because of what I
have read here and because of my troubling past experience with medication
with fish so you all were right that the one overall best medicine for fish
is water changes (basically fresh relatively clean plain old dechlorinated
and possibly a little salt, water). The silver dollar will be 100% soon I
expect and is out of the woods to say the least. The silver dollar got stuck
because I already had the water level very low (50% I think) and the
hornwort ended up getting compressed into even a tighter mass than before.
So I have seen the benefit of water changes and it's definite place in
improving things but on the other hand the nitrates seem unaffected by extra
(EXTRA) water changes/vaccing and I want to be practical. I guess the test
kits are flawed, I am actually starting to wonder if there is a foreign
unaccountable substance in my water which registers as nitrate or something.
I have two other tanks with super high nitrates without the mysterious guppy
deaths my silver dollar tank experiences and it has been like this since my
original getting started in this hobby with my bedroom tank (at one time I
only had this one bedroom tank and it worked beautifully until the guppy
population in it grew too populated and the mysterious deaths would occur.
Then I moved them all to the silver dollar tank which was death free until
that population got large, then I brought some of them into the bedroom tank
and now they are repopulating it and I am half expecting mysterious deaths
to once again show up in this tank again). I have had a large population of
fancy guppies in the turtle tank for over 1 and 1/2 years and the only
health problem I have had with the turtle tank is one case of a male fancy
guppy having fatal dropsy. Other than that that's it. At this moment I am
convinced the fancy guppies breeding so much is the root cause
(overpopulation) and that the mysterious deaths is the way this mini-nature
deals with overpopulation, and there is scientific information to back this
up I think.



Every other parameter is fine
except for maybe the ph being at 6.5.

I found keeping guppies alive and healthy takes water with a PH over
7. They do much better in harder more alkaline water. In a PH below
7.2 an in slightly acid water they don't do nearly as well. Anyway,
that's been my experience with guppies and other live bearers.

I agree and am working on a solution. I want to find some limestone or
something around this area and buy a bunch of it and put it in the canister
filter to keep the ph and alkalinity up although the silver dollars probably
would prefer the way it s now (low ph and low alkalinity). I have tried what
is essentially crushed coral and it only increases general hardness, not
carbonate hardness (alkalinity) which is what I am looking for and that
would lead to increased ph as well. Go figure as it also is totally against
my and I believe other's knowledge about such things. This is the second
thing which I don't get in my hobby so far.



Ripping out the hornwort should
cause more to grow and thus more nitrate to be removed in the
process.

That can happen! :-) I'm surprised it's growing so well for you

I'm surprised too - it's funny - anachris and egeria densa die off almost
immediately in my tanks and people keep telling me to keep it and I keep
yelling back "it won't grow for me!", but I am glad some kind of fast
growing plant actually does now even if only in that one tank only
(hornwort).

as
it didn't thrive for me in NY's soft slightly acid water. I just had
an odd thing happen with hornwart. After having it for many years,
both indoors and in my ponds - about 90% of it suddenly did a
die-off! I once read about bamboo doing the same thing. I suppose
it'll spring back from the small bits I have left of it....... if
not I'll have to start with a fresh bunch.

Thanks again - good luck and later!

I offer the same service to you as I recently did to mister gardner, but
practicality might keep people from ever calling me out on my word. You're
welcome - good luck and later!

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:23 -0800, "Daniel Morrow"
wrote:

Summary - about a month ago one of my silver
dollars got caught between the mass of hornwort and one heater (I felt
terrible for not noticing in time and I deservedly felt stupid for not
anticipating this since I used to always unplug my heaters when lowering
(changing) water but recently stopped unplugging them since I thought the
auto-shut of feature would prevent burns but I learned in this case the
auto-shutoff prevents damage to the heater - not any unlucky fish (in other
words the heater gets hot enough to burn fish still even with the auto-shut
off feature) and that silver dollar experienced one big bad burn,

I mentioned this item before, and I don't receive any commissions on
sales, but after I found a burned fish I discovered the heater guards
made by Tronic and I'm using one on every heater I have from now on.
They come in different lengths, but I've found that one size fits all
three or four of the brands of heaters that I use. Less than five
bucks. I have no idea how long these have been on the market, but I
guess I never noticed them on the shelves or in the catalogs until I
needed one. A couple of my heaters have the temperature setting
numbers on the side and this heater protector is designed to allow me
to see the numbers and the sliding red thing.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/... 1=3231;pcid2=

-- Mister Gardener