What Are You Feeding & Where are You Buying Your Koi Food This Season?

most people seriously overfeed their Koi and GF too. how many fish do you have?
Ingrid


Some people have too many fish to freeze their foods.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

wrote in message
...
most people seriously overfeed their Koi and GF too. how many fish do you
have?
Ingrid


Some people have too many fish to freeze their foods.
=====================
My NR can't tell who this is addressed to as it's under Jan's but the quote
is from my message. I have between 20 and 25 koi that are up to 6 years
old, about 120 year old koi (that are being delivered this coming week) and
probably 50 goldfish of various sizes and ages. That's why we buy our feed
in 50 lb bags. Last year they and all the fry went through about 100 lbs of
feed. We have a long feeding season here in TN, from mid/late March to late
Nov or early Dec.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at: http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

wrote in message

most people seriously overfeed their Koi and GF too. how many fish do you
have? Ingrid

I think this one we can file under the need to "overfeed" when one buys the
cheaper foods to get the same amount of nutrition in the fish as the higher
priced stuff, as you've mentioned.

I found that out with dog food years ago. Small dog, grocery store "cheap"
brand, feed 3 cups. Higher priced, but vet recommended brand, feed 1 cup.
Price difference, practically nil, when one takes in that ratio. Big
difference, how much comes out the other end.

In fish, if your filter can handle it, and you're not worried about the
other concerns, no biggie. With dogs, again if you're not worried about
health concerns (which was the reason that made us switch), if you don't
mind picking up more poo. No biggie.

I don't think any of us here on this newsgroup has a koi in the 50 year age
range, that they've raised in a garden pond setting. When someone does,
that's the person who will get my attention. I bet we find out it comes
down to not just processed food, but quite a bit of natural whole foods
too. ) jmo, ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

~ janj wrote:

I don't think any of us here on this newsgroup has a koi in the 50 year
age range, that they've raised in a garden pond setting. When someone
does, that's the person who will get my attention. I bet we find out it
comes down to not just processed food, but quite a bit of natural whole
foods too. ) jmo, ~ jan

On the side of the cheap-food feeders, there's the argument that nobody here
has a koi in the 50 year age range :-)

I've never lost a koi to disease or starvation. I don't intend to fatten
them up on expensive food just for the sake of the Herons and Raccoons :-)
(I doubt anyone would ever accuse me of overfeeding, either).
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
~ janj wrote:

I don't think any of us here on this newsgroup has a koi in the 50 year
age range, that they've raised in a garden pond setting. When someone
does, that's the person who will get my attention. I bet we find out it
comes down to not just processed food, but quite a bit of natural whole
foods too. ) jmo, ~ jan

On the side of the cheap-food feeders, there's the argument that nobody
here
has a koi in the 50 year age range :-)

I've never lost a koi to disease or starvation. I don't intend to fatten
them up on expensive food just for the sake of the Herons and Raccoons :-)
(I doubt anyone would ever accuse me of overfeeding, either).
====================
They always seem to fall back on those using cheaper feeds as "overfeeding"
their fish. My koi and GF ate the *SAME AMOUNT* of expensive foods they did
the cheaper foods when I switched. My filters still had to be cleaned every
2 weeks or so - there was no difference in the amount of feces, mulm or
algae. They spawn perfect fry with almost 99% survival rate. So why feed
the expensive foods? I just don't get it?!?!?!

It kind of reminds me of the vets who charge the farmer 25¢ for a capsule of
antibiotic and the poodle owner $2.50.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at: http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I hate to jump into this thread as it is a pretty passionate one here - I
have to agree with Jan as I went thru the same experience as Jan a few years
ago - my cat had to go in for a operation and the vet gave us some "high
end" food for her recovery - 3 days later we called him as she was passing
almost no waste compared to before and we were worried something was wrong -
he said the food we were feeding her before was loaded with filler and less
nutrients that she could use - it was not medicated, just more expensive
food because of less filler, ergo less waste to pass - I went to better food
for the pond and now clean my upflow filter once a season rather than 3 to 4
times / season with same amount of food (my choice - I spoil my pets when
they beg :~) )

Gale :~)
I found that out with dog food years ago. Small dog, grocery store "cheap"
brand, feed 3 cups. Higher priced, but vet recommended brand, feed 1 cup.
Price difference, practically nil, when one takes in that ratio. Big
difference, how much comes out the other end.

In fish, if your filter can handle it, and you're not worried about the
other concerns, no biggie. With dogs, again if you're not worried about
health concerns (which was the reason that made us switch), if you don't
mind picking up more poo. No biggie.

I don't think any of us here on this newsgroup has a koi in the 50 year
age
range, that they've raised in a garden pond setting. When someone does,
that's the person who will get my attention. I bet we find out it comes
down to not just processed food, but quite a bit of natural whole foods
too. ) jmo, ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

G Pearce wrote:
I hate to jump into this thread as it is a pretty passionate one here - I
have to agree with Jan as I went thru the same experience as Jan a few years
ago - my cat had to go in for a operation and the vet gave us some "high
end" food for her recovery - 3 days later we called him as she was passing
almost no waste compared to before and we were worried something was wrong -
he said the food we were feeding her before was loaded with filler and less
nutrients that she could use - it was not medicated, just more expensive
food because of less filler, ergo less waste to pass - I went to better food
for the pond and now clean my upflow filter once a season rather than 3 to 4
times / season with same amount of food (my choice - I spoil my pets when
they beg :~) )

Gale :~)


OK, I hate to jump into this as well but....now I will certainly agree
that there are fish foods as well as other pet foods on the market that
do not contain as much fibre or filler - hmmm, aren't we all encouraged
to eat fibre that we cannot digest as part of a healthy diet??? and
doesn't this apply to the health of our fish as well....a natural
balanced diet contains protein, roughage, vitamins, minerals etc in fact
fibre is seen as a very posititive thing for our well being and the
health issues without it are quite significant - it might suit us if our
pets poop a little less but I very much doubt that it is beneficial to
their health....our medics would be in a panic if we didn't produce
sufficient waste products diagnosing all sorts of stuff...over here, in
the UK, the more regular and sufficient quantity the better (without
wanting to get gross) for our health as far as our medics and health
education is concerned...I don't think animals are any different...

Now, I don't seem to remember anyone suggesting that they are buying
cheap food full of fillers just alternative commercial options...the
fish food for commercial use is cheaper because of the quantity it is
purchased in...does it need to say Koi on the label??? or is that just
another marketing ploy....if the fish are breeding and healthy and have
good colour do we need to take issue just because of a labelling issue????

Gill

On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:26:18 +0100, Gill Passman wrote:

OK, I hate to jump into this as well but....now I will certainly agree
that there are fish foods as well as other pet foods on the market that
do not contain as much fibre or filler - hmmm, aren't we all encouraged
to eat fibre that we cannot digest as part of a healthy diet???

But we're omnivores, cats & dogs are carnivores, last I heard. ;o)
Therefore pooping more than twice/day isn't necessary. On non-digestible
fillers, a dog can poop up to 4 or more times/day. Personally I wish the
fillers in my diet would go elsewhere if you know what I mean.

education is concerned...I don't think animals are any different...

Hmmm, I think there are a few PhD's that would beg to differ, but I'm not
going to argue their points. Way too over my head.

Now, I don't seem to remember anyone suggesting that they are buying
cheap food full of fillers just alternative commercial options...

Using dog food or cat chow was suggested at one point.

the fish food for commercial use is cheaper because of the quantity it is
purchased in...does it need to say Koi on the label??? Gill

No guarantees, one has to read the label. "Koi" food, even high priced
stuff, can have non-digestible filler in it. Corn being the biggest
problem, in that the fish LOVE it, it is their equivalent to candy. That is
why koivet says not to use a fish food with corn in the 1st three
ingredients. There's no evil in giving them treats, after all, that's the
fun part of having a fish pond, feeding the little piggies, and thinking we
see them smile. Are we goofy or what?

Now there is the worry of corn toxic fungus. I wonder if freezing would
kill such fungus? ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

no. the toxin contamination occurs in the corn prior to processing. and rancid oils
are also toxic. Ingrid

~ janj wrote:
Now there is the worry of corn toxic fungus. I wonder if freezing would
kill such fungus? ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Koi digest proteins and fats. these are contained in the little critters they have
evolved to feed on, the little worms, larvae, daphnia, etc. these little critters
live on the algae and water plants, and the worms are usually in the mud which is why
they root in plant pots and on the bottom. The algae they eat meets their "green"
needs, but algae is structurally completely different from land plants with all that
cellulose.
the problem with all that excess "poop" is that it is very rich in nutrients that
bacteria break down into wastes that foul the water. the poop of a healthy fish is
not "seen" hanging from their butt or sitting in strings on the bottom. It is
supposed to disintegrate when it hits the water (mostly seen in fish tanks).
the commercial fish food is cheap because it is "just" good enough to fatten up the
fish for one year and then they are "meat". there is no concern for long term
health. actually, anyone can buy fish food by buying krill in bulk. the breeders in
China specifically raise all kinds of live foods like blood worms, black worms to
feed the pond raised fish. they power feed them species appropriate foods to get
them large very fast. Ingrid


Gill Passman wrote:
a natural
balanced diet contains protein, roughage, vitamins, minerals etc in fact
fibre is seen as a very posititive thing for our well being and the
health issues without it are quite significant - it might suit us if our
pets poop a little less but I very much doubt that it is beneficial to
their health....our medics would be in a panic if we didn't produce
sufficient waste products diagnosing all sorts of stuff...over here, in
the UK, the more regular and sufficient quantity the better (without
wanting to get gross) for our health as far as our medics and health
education is concerned...I don't think animals are any different...

Now, I don't seem to remember anyone suggesting that they are buying
cheap food full of fillers just alternative commercial options...the
fish food for commercial use is cheaper because of the quantity it is
purchased in...does it need to say Koi on the label??? or is that just
another marketing ploy....if the fish are breeding and healthy and have
good colour do we need to take issue just because of a labelling issue????

Gill



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan