How smart are fish ?

The idea that "fish don't think, but only react with
instinct" is one example of what I am talking about.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 12:22 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
One thing that I find interesting, is that people that believe in
evolution think that there is less similarities between people and
animals than people that believe in creation.

What are you talking about ? Where have you noticed this?
I find exactly opposite in my observations...

Christians believe only humans have souls - animals
are things you can kill and eat, people are "better"
than animals. Only people go to heaven, right ? :-)
The single thing Darvin said about similarities about
people to other primates created the most of his
enemies. People believing in God believe they are
special and significantly different from "beasts".

Scientists see much more similarities between humans
and other living beings than creationists.

Wayne Sallee wrote in news:44C4F60B.7010007
@WayneSallee.com:

The idea that "fish don't think, but only react with
instinct" is one example of what I am talking about.


Its telling that your example is at least as un-scientific as your own
Creationist view... Why would anyone associate this idea with
evolution?

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver


Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 12:22 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
One thing that I find interesting, is that people that believe in
evolution think that there is less similarities between people and
animals than people that believe in creation.

What are you talking about ? Where have you noticed this?
I find exactly opposite in my observations...

Christians believe only humans have souls - animals
are things you can kill and eat, people are "better"
than animals. Only people go to heaven, right ? :-)
The single thing Darvin said about similarities about
people to other primates created the most of his
enemies. People believing in God believe they are
special and significantly different from "beasts".

Scientists see much more similarities between humans
and other living beings than creationists.

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
The idea that "fish don't think, but only react with
instinct" is one example of what I am talking about.

There are two kinds of an instinct, Wayne...
One - they are borned with, and the second one they can learn.
The second one is also called Pavlov instinct in the appreciation
of the work this scientists has done for the understanding animal behaviour.

Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html
If you do a search on google with a keyword Pavlov and dog you
will find more interesting facts you could match with your fish...

Instinct: a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency
of an organism to make a complex and specific response to
environmental stimuli without involving reason.

So someone decided to redefine the word? hehehe

I find it interesting that you are arguing in this
direction after your earlier argument about the anemone
fish and it's anemone.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
The idea that "fish don't think, but only react with instinct" is one
example of what I am talking about.

There are two kinds of an instinct, Wayne...
One - they are borned with, and the second one they can learn.
The second one is also called Pavlov instinct in the appreciation
of the work this scientists has done for the understanding animal
behaviour.

Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html

If you do a search on google with a keyword Pavlov and dog you
will find more interesting facts you could match with your fish...

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Instinct: a largely inheritable and unalterable tendency
of an organism to make a complex and specific response to
environmental stimuli without involving reason.

So someone decided to redefine the word? hehehe

No, no redefine... I should say there are two kinds of reflexes:
instincts (inheritable) and conditioned reflexes - these are
the ones you "learn" during the life...
Both kinds of reflexes have nothing to do with intelligence.

I find it interesting that you are arguing in this
direction after your earlier argument about the anemone
fish and it's anemone.

My argument before had nothing to do with evolution...
Here I am reacting to your statements about creationism.

Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html

People do that, hence the phrase "mouth watering".

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html

People do that, hence the phrase "mouth watering".

The point was that the dog reflex was the result of the BELL ringing.
Not the result of seeing, smelling or eating the food...

Nothing new about that. People have been doing that for
many years on the farm.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/25/2006 9:33 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to
eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html


People do that, hence the phrase "mouth watering".

The point was that the dog reflex was the result of the BELL ringing.
Not the result of seeing, smelling or eating the food...

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Nothing new about that. People have been doing that for
many years on the farm.

So now compare this to your fish recognising the fridge opening.