How smart are fish ?

What question?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/25/2006 10:49 AM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 6:08 PM:

I do not think your argument with toaster oven was an originally
yours...

You are correct on that :-)

Any response to my question ?
Or you prefer to leave it unanswered ?

atomweaver wrote:


Creationism is an aspect of overzealous conservatism. Its a
petty hi-jacking of Christianity by small-minded folk, who undermine
Christian faith by trivializing the Bible and its teachings with an
overly-literal interpretation, in most instances for political, rather
than spiritual, ends.
I can't think of another single idea which so stupidly undermine both
valid scientific education _and_ the very religion which it claims to be
a proponent of.



Stands Clapping well said, well put

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RicSeyler wrote:


atomweaver wrote:


Creationism is an aspect of overzealous conservatism. Its a petty
hi-jacking of Christianity by small-minded folk, who undermine
Christian faith by trivializing the Bible and its teachings with an
overly-literal interpretation, in most instances for political, rather
than spiritual, ends. I can't think of another single idea which so
stupidly undermine both valid scientific education _and_ the very
religion which it claims to be a proponent of.


Stands Clapping well said, well put


The marvel of biblical writing is that it presents highly
abstract ideas in folkloric form which can be understood by
the simplest minds. The more perceptive reader who is
capable of reading more deeply can easily see through the
myths to the more profound thoughts. It's not at all
surprising if those who require literal definition deny
there is an idea beneath it. It's to be expected. If the
authors wrote in the philosophical style their subject
called for, it would not be read by what is likely their
target audience.

rtk

No, not really well put at all. It's like a person with a
goldfish bowl telling a person with a successful reef tank
that they are killing their corals.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



RicSeyler wrote on 7/25/2006 5:48 PM:


atomweaver wrote:


Creationism is an aspect of overzealous conservatism. Its a petty
hi-jacking of Christianity by small-minded folk, who undermine
Christian faith by trivializing the Bible and its teachings with an
overly-literal interpretation, in most instances for political, rather
than spiritual, ends. I can't think of another single idea which so
stupidly undermine both valid scientific education _and_ the very
religion which it claims to be a proponent of.


Stands Clapping well said, well put

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 5:48 PM:
Fish reaction to food is the first kind: they do not have to learn to eat.
Fish reacting to the fridge opening or seeing a person next to the tank
is the second kind - the same as the one Pavlov dogs developed an
salivation reflex for the sound of the bell. Do more reading here
http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~matto...lecture30.html

People do that, hence the phrase "mouth watering".

The point was that the dog reflex was the result of the BELL ringing.
Not the result of seeing, smelling or eating the food...

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
Pszemol wrote on 7/24/2006 11:25 AM:
the fact they are alone in the Universe
and there is no God listening to their prayers :-)

You don't even believe that.

I really do. Do you want to talk about it ?

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message ...
What question?

The one you cut off the bottom of my previous message.

For God's sake Wayne, you are taking fire from everywhere dude!
You see, go to church to talk about this, is the only place they'll belief
you blindfolded.
Here, hehehe, well, you can't take anymore beating.
When I first entered this NG I was under the impression that you knew a
little about something, at this point I am not sure how you made it thru
high school.
You see, there is a whole world outthere that sees the bible for what it is
worst. A bunch of papers translated from language to language that are most
likely so transformed that it says the opposite of what they were intended.
For example, the bible says that the Israelites were the chosen people,
apparently they were the chosen ones alright but to be punish by God for
eternity.
For 5,000 years their people had done nothing but suffer. Even today a few
descendants of David died at the hands of the descendants of Goliath. See,
they were the chosen people to get screwed over millennia...
Do you still belief LITERALLY in the bible?
Evolution rules dude! Just watch a zygote, unicellular, transform in 9
months into a human being.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
No, not really well put at all. It's like a person with a goldfish bowl
telling a person with a successful reef tank that they are killing their
corals.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



RicSeyler wrote on 7/25/2006 5:48 PM:


atomweaver wrote:


Creationism is an aspect of overzealous conservatism. Its a petty
hi-jacking of Christianity by small-minded folk, who undermine Christian
faith by trivializing the Bible and its teachings with an overly-literal
interpretation, in most instances for political, rather than spiritual,
ends. I can't think of another single idea which so stupidly
undermine both valid scientific education _and_ the very religion which
it claims to be a proponent of.
Stands Clapping well said, well put

Wayne Sallee wrote in news:44C69E4D.6090902
@WayneSallee.com:

No, not really well put at all. It's like a person with a
goldfish bowl telling a person with a successful reef tank
that they are killing their corals.


Can you express your ideas on these subjects in any form other than
analogy, anecdote, and allegory?

Regardless, your opinion is in the minority (wrt both the science, and
the religion).

sectarian links

http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/clergy_project.htm

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

And who among the religious embrace literal Creationism most fully? Two
groups; a minority fraction of the evangelical right in the US, and some
varieties of Islamic extremists...

http://www.harunyahya.com/

Comfortable with your bedfellows, Wayne?


The scientific community's support for evolution is universal (we
wouldn't have the fields of modern medicine and genetics without it...
Are you getting a flu vaccine this year, Wayne? If so, thanks for your
support of ToE... your dollars and actions speak far more than your
anecdotes do). I'll only leave a pair of links for that angle. I think
the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed evolution-related articles in
various scientific journals could also be considered support for ToE;

http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/

and from my own field;

http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/...ture_pol.html?
id=c373e904891eddda8f6a17245d830100

Regards,
DaveZ

What question?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 7/25/2006 9:37 PM:
"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
...
What question?

The one you cut off the bottom of my previous message.