Reef sumps by ESHOPPS

What the heck is the "vibrator pump" method? I'd say your concept of how an
AC motor works is a bit weird. There is really nothing inherently more
efficient about a magnetically coupled, sealed, pump over what you are
calling an external pump. Every power head I've ever seen uses a sealed
rotating magnetic field which couples to a magnet attached to the impeller
shaft. What you are calling an external motor works in almost the same way,
a rotating magnetic field couples magnetically to a rotating shaft which is
then coupled mechanically to an impeller. The only advantage I see in a pump
mounted external to the sump is that it won't transfer heat to the tank.

Tankdoc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Sallee"
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs


Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 3:46 PM:
Powerheads like quiet one 3000 give you more water
movement per watt of electricity than external pumps.

Yes, that's correct. Because of their design, they will use less
electricity. External motors don't use the vibrator pump method, but are
actual motors that continue to move the shaft in the same direction until
it gets into the next position, and then the next electrical contact is
made, forcing it into the next position, and so on, and so they use more
electricity.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
.net...
Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 3:46 PM:
Powerheads like quiet one 3000 give you more water
movement per watt of electricity than external pumps.

Yes, that's correct. Because of their design, they will use less
electricity. External motors don't use the vibrator pump method, but are
actual motors that continue to move the shaft in the same direction until
it gets into the next position, and then the next electrical contact is
made, forcing it into the next position, and so on, and so they use more
electricity.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

"Mark Cooper" wrote in message .. .
"Pszemol" wrote in :

Anybody here using reef sumps made by ESHOPPS ?
Here is the link: http://www.eshopps.com/reefsump.php

I saw them yesterday in a local pet store, they
are quite expensive: RS-200 is about $200...

I was wondering if they are good and if they can
be purchased somewhere online little bit cheaper.

It's remarkably easy to make your own out of a tank, like Wayne said. I
made one from a 20L. The water flows over a couple of baffles and I have
no problem with bubbles.

How did you deal with baffles ?
How have you installed them ?

Pszemol wrote:

Anybody here using reef sumps made by ESHOPPS ?
Here is the link: http://www.eshopps.com/reefsump.php

I saw them yesterday in a local pet store, they
are quite expensive: RS-200 is about $200...

I was wondering if they are good and if they can
be purchased somewhere online little bit cheaper.

I would say to save your money and build your own. I converted a 55G glass
aquarium into a sump/refugium with a few sheets of acrylic, a saw, and some
silicone for less than $100. Bubble traps are easy to build and very
effective. To me, the added benefit of designing a sump that is customized
to my system was worth a fortune. If you're interested, I'd be happy to
email you the general design.
--
He who would be a man, must be a nonconformist. --Emerson

Why use bags of media when a simple canister filter can be constructed from
PVC and filled with any granular media you desire? Oh, and I avoid the 90
degree elbow issue by using acrylic flex tubing (1") for the first foot or
so coming out of the pump. Makes it real easy to access the pump for
cleaning, and has gentler angles overall.

Wayne Sallee wrote:



Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 12:16 PM:

Using seaweed requires the sump to be lighted.

Yep, and many people are liking the benefits that
refugiums provide.


Not using baffles you are dealing with air bubbles
going into the return pump and geting into the tank.
How do you deal with air bubbles?

Live rock rubble in the sump takes all the bubbles out.


Also, occupying sump with live rock you have no room
there left for placing skimmer, phosphate reaktor
and other devices people normally put in the sump.

I have room for a 1,000 gph protein skimmer in my sump,
and room for carbon and any other bags of media I may want
in there, currently experimenting with a bag of sulfur.


Having 90' elbows on your plumbing you waste the
pump power - each elbow is like a foot hight, so
the flow rate you get from the pump is much lesser...

I use 2" thin wall pvc pipe.

I also do not drill the sump, but I use internal pump
like quiet one 3000 which has enough flow for my 58 g.

I like external pumps because when the electricity comes
on they kick on, as they are real motors, and not vibrator
pumps. Also less heat transfer.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


--
He who would be a man, must be a nonconformist. --Emerson

Pszemol wrote:
How did you deal with baffles ?
How have you installed them ?

acrylic sheet, cut to size and put in place with silicone to the glass
tank. cheap and easy.

-K

The difference is that a submersible pump like a powerhead
works by giving an alternating magnetic charge. You will
notice that when a powerhead starts up, it's a 50/50
chance as to which way it will spin, and if something gets
stuck in there, like if you stick your finger on the
impeller, you will notice that the impeller vibrates back
and forth.

But a external pump like little giant, uses windings that
are charged in order one after another, depending on the
position that the shaft is in, because the electrical
contacts on the shaft control the polarity of the
electrical field being generated.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



tankdoc wrote on 10/31/2006 11:50 PM:
What the heck is the "vibrator pump" method? I'd say your concept of how an
AC motor works is a bit weird. There is really nothing inherently more
efficient about a magnetically coupled, sealed, pump over what you are
calling an external pump. Every power head I've ever seen uses a sealed
rotating magnetic field which couples to a magnet attached to the impeller
shaft. What you are calling an external motor works in almost the same way,
a rotating magnetic field couples magnetically to a rotating shaft which is
then coupled mechanically to an impeller. The only advantage I see in a pump
mounted external to the sump is that it won't transfer heat to the tank.

Tankdoc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Sallee"
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs


Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 3:46 PM:
Powerheads like quiet one 3000 give you more water
movement per watt of electricity than external pumps.
Yes, that's correct. Because of their design, they will use less
electricity. External motors don't use the vibrator pump method, but are
actual motors that continue to move the shaft in the same direction until
it gets into the next position, and then the next electrical contact is
made, forcing it into the next position, and so on, and so they use more
electricity.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

"Wayne Sallee" wrote in message
.net...
Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 3:46 PM:
Powerheads like quiet one 3000 give you more water
movement per watt of electricity than external pumps.
Yes, that's correct. Because of their design, they will use less
electricity. External motors don't use the vibrator pump method, but are
actual motors that continue to move the shaft in the same direction until
it gets into the next position, and then the next electrical contact is
made, forcing it into the next position, and so on, and so they use more
electricity.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Yep, you can do it that way too.

Also another way to reduce elbowing, is to use 2 45's
instead of a 90.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



mmHg wrote on 11/1/2006 2:50 PM:
Why use bags of media when a simple canister filter can be constructed from
PVC and filled with any granular media you desire? Oh, and I avoid the 90
degree elbow issue by using acrylic flex tubing (1") for the first foot or
so coming out of the pump. Makes it real easy to access the pump for
cleaning, and has gentler angles overall.

Wayne Sallee wrote:


Pszemol wrote on 10/31/2006 12:16 PM:
Using seaweed requires the sump to be lighted.
Yep, and many people are liking the benefits that
refugiums provide.

Not using baffles you are dealing with air bubbles
going into the return pump and geting into the tank.
How do you deal with air bubbles?
Live rock rubble in the sump takes all the bubbles out.

Also, occupying sump with live rock you have no room
there left for placing skimmer, phosphate reaktor
and other devices people normally put in the sump.
I have room for a 1,000 gph protein skimmer in my sump,
and room for carbon and any other bags of media I may want
in there, currently experimenting with a bag of sulfur.

Having 90' elbows on your plumbing you waste the
pump power - each elbow is like a foot hight, so
the flow rate you get from the pump is much lesser...
I use 2" thin wall pvc pipe.

I also do not drill the sump, but I use internal pump
like quiet one 3000 which has enough flow for my 58 g.
I like external pumps because when the electricity comes
on they kick on, as they are real motors, and not vibrator
pumps. Also less heat transfer.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Wayne Sallee wrote:
The difference is that a submersible pump like a powerhead works by
giving an alternating magnetic charge. You will notice that when a
powerhead starts up, it's a 50/50 chance as to which way it will spin,
and if something gets stuck in there, like if you stick your finger on
the impeller, you will notice that the impeller vibrates back and forth.

Called a "stepper" motor.

But a external pump like little giant, uses windings that are charged in
order one after another, depending on the position that the shaft is in,
because the electrical contacts on the shaft control the polarity of the
electrical field being generated.

Called a "squirrel cage" motor.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...ents_and_types

George Patterson
If there are obstacles, the shortest path between two points may be the
crooked one.

A couple things about using acrylic baffles siliconed in
place verses glass baffles, is that it is easier, but
silicone does not bond with acrylic as well, though that
is a good thing because it usually will hold well enough
for the purpose, and yet can be removed and reconfigured
much easier.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Kelsey Cummings wrote on 11/1/2006 10:47 PM:
Pszemol wrote:
How did you deal with baffles ?
How have you installed them ?

acrylic sheet, cut to size and put in place with silicone to the glass
tank. cheap and easy.

-K

"Pszemol" wrote in
:

"Mark Cooper" wrote in message
.. .
"Pszemol" wrote in
:

Anybody here using reef sumps made by ESHOPPS ?
Here is the link: http://www.eshopps.com/reefsump.php

I saw them yesterday in a local pet store, they
are quite expensive: RS-200 is about $200...

I was wondering if they are good and if they can
be purchased somewhere online little bit cheaper.

It's remarkably easy to make your own out of a tank, like Wayne said.
I made one from a 20L. The water flows over a couple of baffles and I
have no problem with bubbles.

How did you deal with baffles ?
How have you installed them ?

I used standard window glass, which my local hardware store cut to my
specifications. I just siliconed them in place. Between the section where
the water drains in and the middle section I have three baffles. The
middle one is about a half inch off the bottom, the idea being that the
water would flow under this one and over the next, giving bubbles a
chance to dissipate. If you look around on DIY pages, you'll see this
illustrated. If I can do it, it's eeeasy!

Mark