Lionhead Goldfish outdoors

"Zëbulon" wrote in message
...
[big snip]
I've learned a lot on this NG over the years. You can always try a few
inexpensive fancy GF and see how they do in your own area, under your
conditions. Although my comets and Shubunkins always made it through the
winter here in the ponds, they didn't always survive in the barrels.

The problem I have is my goldfish tend to breed, then
what do I do? My tropical fish (indoors, in aquariums)
are the species that are difficult to breed, so I don't have
to worry about overpopulation.

The first goldfish in my inground pond was "accidental".
I had moved some minnows over from another pond
and didn't realize I was also moving a baby goldfish.
I've since added a few more goldfish, which of course
will compound my population problem...

I think the wildlife keeps the minnow population in
check; at least, I don't seem to have an
overabundance of minnows, and they do breed
like rabbits.

ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Zëbulon" wrote in message
...
[big snip]
I've learned a lot on this NG over the years. You can always try a few
inexpensive fancy GF and see how they do in your own area, under your
conditions. Although my comets and Shubunkins always made it through
the winter here in the ponds, they didn't always survive in the barrels.

The problem I have is my goldfish tend to breed, then
what do I do? My tropical fish (indoors, in aquariums)
are the species that are difficult to breed, so I don't have
to worry about overpopulation.

There's only one way I know to keep that from happening and that's to sex
them before you turn them lose in your pond or whatever. Select all males!
They get those white bumps or stars in their gill covers. A dead giveaway.
:-) My indoor Orandas are already showing these stars so they're easy to
sex now.

The first goldfish in my inground pond was "accidental".
I had moved some minnows over from another pond
and didn't realize I was also moving a baby goldfish.
I've since added a few more goldfish, which of course
will compound my population problem...

That's for sure. They're extremely prolific and can quickly overpopulate a
pond.

I think the wildlife keeps the minnow population in
check; at least, I don't seem to have an
overabundance of minnows, and they do breed
like rabbits.

I assume you mean rosy-red minnows? Their numbers are slowly dwindling here
for some reason. I have a few dark ones left but all the gold ones are
gone. I've not found any dead ones so think some predator is picking them
off.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Zëbulon" wrote in message
...

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
[snip]
I think the wildlife keeps the minnow population in
check; at least, I don't seem to have an
overabundance of minnows, and they do breed
like rabbits.

I assume you mean rosy-red minnows?

Yep. Sorry, I should have specified. I recall when
I bought the first batch the salesperson asking what
I was going to feed them to, and I replied they were
going into my pond. I got an odd look. Ok, so
feeder fish probably aren't the best stock for ponds,
but I'm a minimalist ponder, and the minnows have
done great, despite their dubious beginnings. I have
few rosy reds left; most are now the steelhead color
(if that's the right word).

Their numbers are slowly dwindling here for some reason. I have a few dark
ones left but all the gold ones are gone. I've not found any dead ones so
think some predator is picking them off.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Gail

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
"Zëbulon" wrote in message
I assume you mean rosy-red minnows?

Yep. Sorry, I should have specified. I recall when
I bought the first batch the salesperson asking what
I was going to feed them to, and I replied they were
going into my pond. I got an odd look. Ok, so
feeder fish probably aren't the best stock for ponds,
but I'm a minimalist ponder, and the minnows have
done great, despite their dubious beginnings. I have
few rosy reds left; most are now the steelhead color
(if that's the right word).
=====================
These minnows are great little fish for keeping the mosquito population in
control for those who don't want goldfish or koi, or who have small ponds.
There were two conditions where they didn't do well for me. One was a pool
out in the full sun that became too warm in summer. It was too far from the
house to aerate and I think the heat killed them as they did die off one at
a time. The other is the 3 barrels beside the iris bed. The only thing I
can think of there is the lack of aeration as the water doesn't get all that
warm in summer. It may have been lack of aeration alone in both cases.

They did fine in a partially shaded, aerated and filtered in-ground 150g
pool closer to the house. I haven't found a dead one in there yet, but
their population is dwindling. It's the only pond that's not netted so
anything can get in there. One day I found a box turtle on the filter. :-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Who gives a **** about your minnows, Predation is part and parcel of
nature so get used to it.
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:56:22 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
wrote:

"Zëbulon" wrote in message
...

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
[snip]
I think the wildlife keeps the minnow population in
check; at least, I don't seem to have an
overabundance of minnows, and they do breed
like rabbits.

I assume you mean rosy-red minnows?

Yep. Sorry, I should have specified. I recall when
I bought the first batch the salesperson asking what
I was going to feed them to, and I replied they were
going into my pond. I got an odd look. Ok, so
feeder fish probably aren't the best stock for ponds,
but I'm a minimalist ponder, and the minnows have
done great, despite their dubious beginnings. I have
few rosy reds left; most are now the steelhead color
(if that's the right word).

Their numbers are slowly dwindling here for some reason. I have a few dark
ones left but all the gold ones are gone. I've not found any dead ones so
think some predator is picking them off.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Gail




-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

"Zëbulon" wrote in message
...

[snip]

We agreed Gail has rosy red minnows.

=====================
These minnows are great little fish for keeping the mosquito population in
control for those who don't want goldfish or koi, or who have small ponds.
There were two conditions where they didn't do well for me. One was a
pool out in the full sun that became too warm in summer. It was too far
from the house to aerate and I think the heat killed them as they did die
off one at a time. The other is the 3 barrels beside the iris bed. The
only thing I can think of there is the lack of aeration as the water
doesn't get all that warm in summer. It may have been lack of aeration
alone in both cases.

They did fine in a partially shaded, aerated and filtered in-ground 150g
pool closer to the house. I haven't found a dead one in there yet, but
their population is dwindling. It's the only pond that's not netted so
anything can get in there. One day I found a box turtle on the filter.
:-)

So far I haven't seen any turtles in my yard. I
think we're too far from the nearest creek to get
them. My 2 above ground (stocktank) ponds are
difficult for predators to access. I have seen
bullfrogs around the yard but I'm not sure they get
get into the stocktanks. The frogs I've seen in
there tend to be small green frogs of some sort,
or treefrogs.

The inground pond is about 300 gallons and has
intentionally easy access for wildlife. But even
that one still has a healthy minnow population.

It could be that the snakes - there are rat snakes in
and around my yard - keep the frog population
down. Whatever, I've been lucky in my ignorance!

Gail

double tailed fish need warmer water. fish with lots of finnage need warmer water.
I remember Jo Ann's discussing a friend of hers that had really long tailed shubunks
in outside ponds in Washington, state of, and the fins would shred when the temp got
below 60 something.
deep bodied GF need warmer water for good digestion too. altho grazing in a pond
offsets that problem to a great degree.
I have had fancies (not really deep bodied ones) survive in outdoor ponds as long as
there was good aeration and a hole stayed open and the pond was in my greenhouse.
when the greenhouse collapsed I lost almost all the fish. I restocked and one winter
there was too much mulm and they all died. there was always attrition anyway in the
outdoor ponds.
I think it would work even better to cover the pond and drop in a 500 watt heater all
winter, like I do with my koi ... I feed them all winter long, once or twice a week
since there isnt any filter, and the water stays above 50o for all but a month at
most. they are in much better shape than going 6 months without food and their
immunity is down for a very short time, if at all.
Ingrid


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Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

wrote in message
...
double tailed fish need warmer water. fish with lots of finnage need
warmer water.
I remember Jo Ann's discussing a friend of hers that had really long
tailed shubunks
in outside ponds in Washington, state of, and the fins would shred when
the temp got
below 60 something.

This doesn't happen with my long tailed Shubunkins or my double tailed GF
here in zone 6. Veiltails with excessive finnage may be a different matter.
I don't have Veiltails.

deep bodied GF need warmer water for good digestion too. altho grazing in
a pond
offsets that problem to a great degree.
I have had fancies (not really deep bodied ones) survive in outdoor ponds
as long as
there was good aeration and a hole stayed open and the pond was in my
greenhouse.

How cold are your winters?

when the greenhouse collapsed I lost almost all the fish.

Rapid temperature change possibly?

I restocked and one winter
there was too much mulm and they all died. there was always attrition
anyway in the
outdoor ponds.
I think it would work even better to cover the pond and drop in a 500 watt
heater all
winter, like I do with my koi ... I feed them all winter long, once or
twice a week
since there isnt any filter, and the water stays above 50o for all but a
month at
most. they are in much better shape than going 6 months without food and
their
immunity is down for a very short time, if at all.

Where I live they only go without food for 3 to 3 1/2 months on average. If
the water goes over 50F in winter they're looking for food and are fed
something light like flakes.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*