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I'll give you my opinions... This sounds like a bacterial infection to
me. For one thing, White Spot Disease (ICK), contrary to popular opinion, does not exist in a "dormant state in most tanks", ready to "spring" when conditions are right, at least not for long periods anyway. It's a protozoan organism (and does not exist as "spores", nor is it present in air) and it dies off unless it finds a host and can complete/continue its life cycle. So unless you added some fish that had come into contact with it or allowed something in the tank that had been exposed to it in another tank you should not have White Spot in your tank, after all this time. My fish all "flash" or rub against things *from time to time* (doing it only once in a while is normal) and I do not expect to see White Spot any time soon. Healthy fish are normally resistant to White Spot disease. The fin rot and the blood under the skin of the fish that you mentioned also strongly indicate a bacterial problem (IMO) and bacteria DO hang around dormant in tanks (and indeed are everywhere) waiting for the right conditions to "spring" and usually that means when your fish, for some reason (that you may or may not be aware of) are experiencing weakened immune systems (due to some type of stress or dietary deficiency, or perhaps just old age). I have had a single fish in my tank become afflicted by bacteria and show symptoms exactly as you describe, moved it to a hospital tank, treated it with antibiotics unsuccessfully and watched it decline, lose its fins/scales and eventually die, without any of the other fish from the same tank being affected at all. I've found it very difficult to treat a fish successfully in these instances, once the bacteria has really gotten an advantage. One very important thing to do is to get any sick fish out of the main tank and into a hospital tank ASAP, because a sick fish can be a reservoir for a large number of bacteria, which can overwhelm the immune systems of the healthier fish if left in the tank. This is why it is so important to not ever let a fish die in the main tank (the bacteria are released when the fish dies). In other words it can all start with a single weakened fish. One thing you posted that sticks in my mind is that you use cold water for your water changes. That is something I am very careful to avoid. I'd prefer it be a little warmer rather than colder. Sudden cooling really stresses fish and can weaken their immune systems. In fact when fish ARE exposed to White Spot disease, sudden cooling can impair their ability to resist it. Water temperature is one thing I don't fool around with. Another thing that comes to mind is that your nitrate level is zero. I realize you have a lot of plants, but zero nitrate? Are you sure your nitrifying bacteria haven't been killed off somehow? If so, the plants would surely reduce nitrate to zero in a short time. But I may be off base here. Prevention is the best cure, and your fishes own immune system is their best health insurance. So what I do is I try to do all I can to not stress them; I try to avoid temperature or pH swings, keep the dissolved oxygen level high, try to keep everything rock steady, and I make sure they're getting everything in their diet that they should get. Keep my hands out of and away from the tank (frightened fish are stressed) and things like that. I am certainly no expert and I can't say for sure what happened to your fish, but there are some sites that have very good information on fish diseases, and maybe I've given you some ideas that will help. One particular site that is a favorite of mine is at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/index.html and perhaps you can find some information there that will help you more. Fedor wrote in message ups.com... Is it White-spot, Velvet, or both? I have three fresh water tropical tanks One 45 litre shallow tank for growing on corydoras and Ancistrus fry One 70 litre tank which will be home to my Ancistrus so they can breed in peace, but currently houses an assortment of tetras. One 170 litre heavily planted tank with a large piece of mopani wood and 2" deep, fine gravel, which is my 'show tank' , and contains; 2 ancistrus (7 years old) 3 albino corydoras(1 year old - 1.5" long) 3 clown loaches (5 years old - 3" long) 2 upside down catfish (5 years old - 2" long) 1 whiptail catfish(7 years old) - 4 " long) 2 siamese flying foxes (2 years old - 3" long) 8 congo tetras (6 months old - 2" long) 6 bleeding heart tetras (1 year old - 1.5" long) Nitrites 0 Nitrates 0 Ph 7.2 Gh 160 Kh 140 Temp 24 (75) (the tap water is virtually the same as my aquarium) I have not lost a fish in four years (and hardly had any illnesses at all), the catfish are spawning regularly and I successfully raise the fry and sell them. All the other fish were in peak condition and regularly display courtship behaviour. I feed flake food and catfish pellets once a day, with frozen bloodworm and brineshrimp once or twice a week, and the odd garden pea or courgette for the catfish. I don't use CO2, the light is on a timer for 10 hours a day, and I use a liquid plant food once a week Waterchanges are once a week and I change roughly 12%, gently cleaning the filter. For several months I have not gravel vac'd much of the substrate as all the bottom-feeding fish and numerous malasian trumpet snails keep it pretty clean and the plants are fairly thick. I use cold treated water to re-fill the aquarium which helps to trigger spawning. For several weeks I have noticed one fish or another flash against a plant or rock - just once, every now and then. So I have been watching closely for white-spot, but seen nothing else to signify its presence. About four weeks ago one of my albino corydoras suddenly became ill. She developed blood under the skin on her back and became very listless. I removed her to one of the tubs I use for newly hatched fry, and went to the cupboard for my interpet anti-internal bacteria treatment. The bottle was empty - it had all leaked out. Wondering what to do I decided to briefly bath her in Methylene blue and then add some human amoxicillin to the water in her tub (this was the first time I had tried doing this - and you cannot buy fishmox in the UK) The next day she was the same, I went out and bought some interpet anti-internal bacteria treatment, changed her water and added the medication. Over the next couple of days she got worse, lost all ability to balance or swim and her skin and fins began to rot badly - eventually I put her out of her misery using a 25% dose of top quality Gin which I have read about on the web (again something I have never had to do before, she died pretty peacefully 30 minutes later) Still thinking this was a bacterial infection I treated the show tank just to be safe. Two weeks went by with no further illness, then I started noticing an increase in the number of visible trumpet snails in the tank and I realised I had not seen the clown loaches for a couple of days, then I saw white salt-grain sized spots on the bleeding-heart tetras - just a few, mostly on the tails. Thinking I knew what was going on I did a 30% waterchange (warming the added water) and dosed the tank with interpet anti white-spot, which I got from my cupboard. I increased the temperature to about 80 degrees, and turned off the light. The medicine must have been four years old and after a couple of days it became clear it had had little or no effect. I went out and bought a new bottle and on day four of the treatment I added a full dose of the new stuff. By now all the bleeding heart tetras were badly covered in salt-grain white spots and were hanging near the surface, not eating and clamping their fins, their gills and mouths were moving very fast, and some were developing secondary bacterial infections, I added 250 milligrams of amoxicillin to the tank to try and combat the infections. The clown loaches were now out of their hiding place but looking very ill although they had only one or two white spots each, they actually looked more like they had got velvet, but it was very subtle. The next morning two of the tetras were dead.Next day two more died, and the last two died the following day. By now I was wondering if it could all be velvet and maybe it just looked like white-spot on the bleeding heart tetras? Could that have been why neither dose of white spot medication seemed to help? I did a 50% water change and added a carbon filter for 24 hours, the next day I did a 30% water change, removed the carbon and treated the tank for velvet (again using interpet product) The clown loaches were listless, not eating, not moving around much and by now looking pretty velvety, they were breathing fast, and lying around on the gravel. They also had a couple of the white-spots each here and there. Two days later and two of them were dead. As I write this the last one is lying on the gravel upside down looking as though it will die. It is four days since I added the velvet meds, I have just done a 50% waterchange and thoroughly vac'd the gravel (I read on the web that by removing as many spores from the gravel as possible you help to halt the progress of the parasite - makes sense once you think of it) I have re-filled the tank using warm water and added a half-strength dose of velvet medication Up til now none of the other fish have been affected at all, however one (not both) of my upside down catfish is now covered all over in small (salt-grain size) yellow blobs - not spheres like with the white- spot, more like tiny pustules. Could this be another way for velvet to manifest itself? Can anyone please tell me the following...... What do you think was wrong with the original corydoras? The bleeding heart tetras? The clown loaches? And now the upside down catfish? Could this have all been velvet? Do you think I had velvet and white spot all at once? Why does none of the medication I have used seem to have worked? What can I do to stop this now? Thanks for any help Chris Nuttall |
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