what to look for in new tank?

I hope the crosspost is ok; it seems more efficient than posting an
identical article twice.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 48 * 18 * 18 tank - it's very cheap
(£20, which is around $36, and a fair bit less than half price in the
shops). I think it's new - the guy selling it is a _serious_ fish
hobbyist, makes his own tanks and has taken voluntary redundancy to
start his own aquatics business - he says he's selling to clear out
space in his unit (and has lots of other "bits", too...) He seems like a
very genuine, friendly kind of bloke - he says he can give me a lift
back with the tank in his van, which is astonishingly generous (he must
_really_ need that space...).
What I need to know is, as he isn't an established business and as it's
the kind of rock-bottom price that probably comes with very few
guarantees, how can I spot a duff tank? I know too make sure all the
corners are flat to whatever surface they stand on, but would any faults
in the sealant be obvious? Should I look for anything else? - once I get
it home and fill it up with water it could well be too late. The kitchen
ceiling will not withstand 67 gallons of water coming through it!

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

many thanks,
--
sophie

"sophie" wrote in message
...

I hope the crosspost is ok; it seems more efficient than posting an
identical article twice.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 48 * 18 * 18 tank - it's very cheap
(£20, which is around $36, and a fair bit less than half price in the
shops). I think it's new - the guy selling it is a _serious_ fish
hobbyist, makes his own tanks and has taken voluntary redundancy to
start his own aquatics business - he says he's selling to clear out
space in his unit (and has lots of other "bits", too...) He seems like
a
very genuine, friendly kind of bloke - he says he can give me a lift
back with the tank in his van, which is astonishingly generous (he must
_really_ need that space...).
What I need to know is, as he isn't an established business and as it's
the kind of rock-bottom price that probably comes with very few
guarantees, how can I spot a duff tank? I know too make sure all the
corners are flat to whatever surface they stand on, but would any
faults
in the sealant be obvious? Should I look for anything else? - once I
get
it home and fill it up with water it could well be too late. The
kitchen
ceiling will not withstand 67 gallons of water coming through it!

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

many thanks,
--
sophie

I would check the thickness of the glass used.
http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/...thickness.html has some
reference info on recommended glass thickness (48x18 = 120cm x 46cm =
10mm sides and 12mm base). Mine own 67g uses 9mm (or about 3/8").

Check for air bubbles in the silicone (a few small ones are ok). Check
for silicone imbrittlement (should be pliable and not hard like plastic).

Cosmetically, you can check for scratches. I'm not too keen on buying
home-made tanks, due to the expertise required (surface preparation and
the jigs), but maybe he knew what he was doing.

Do try to get a canopy and whatever bits he is willing to include. Even
gravel gets pricey in the LFS.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Oh, I wouldn't fill it for the first time in the house! Fill it
outside somewhere and leave it to sit for a day or two. While it's
full, check for any bowing of the glass, plus all the stuff Netmax
suggested. Newer tanks have a center brace in the middle of the top
frame to support the front and back glass. The front and side panes
should be attached on top of the bottom pane rather than around the
outside.

If he seems to know what he's doing, and has made several of his own
tanks, it's most likely going to be ok. But I wouldn't fill any tank
for the first time in the house.

Cris


On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:09:34 +0100, sophie
wrote:


I hope the crosspost is ok; it seems more efficient than posting an
identical article twice.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 48 * 18 * 18 tank - it's very cheap
(£20, which is around $36, and a fair bit less than half price in the
shops). I think it's new - the guy selling it is a _serious_ fish
hobbyist, makes his own tanks and has taken voluntary redundancy to
start his own aquatics business - he says he's selling to clear out
space in his unit (and has lots of other "bits", too...) He seems like a
very genuine, friendly kind of bloke - he says he can give me a lift
back with the tank in his van, which is astonishingly generous (he must
_really_ need that space...).
What I need to know is, as he isn't an established business and as it's
the kind of rock-bottom price that probably comes with very few
guarantees, how can I spot a duff tank? I know too make sure all the
corners are flat to whatever surface they stand on, but would any faults
in the sealant be obvious? Should I look for anything else? - once I get
it home and fill it up with water it could well be too late. The kitchen
ceiling will not withstand 67 gallons of water coming through it!

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

many thanks,

"Cris" wrote in message
s.com...
snip
The front and side panes
should be attached on top of the bottom pane rather than around the
outside.

why? Both methods are conventional construction techniques in use on
1000s of aquariums.

If he seems to know what he's doing, and has made several of his own
tanks, it's most likely going to be ok. But I wouldn't fill any tank
for the first time in the house.

If filling the tank elsewhere (lawn, driveway, garage) make sure that you
have a very flat strong surface. With 600 lbs of water, the tank will
shift to close any gaps, and may cause damage & leakage which would
otherwise not occur.
--
www.NetMax.tk

Cris


On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:09:34 +0100, sophie
wrote:


I hope the crosspost is ok; it seems more efficient than posting an
identical article twice.

Tomorrow I'm going to look at a 48 * 18 * 18 tank - it's very cheap
(£20, which is around $36, and a fair bit less than half price in the
shops). I think it's new - the guy selling it is a _serious_ fish
hobbyist, makes his own tanks and has taken voluntary redundancy to
start his own aquatics business - he says he's selling to clear out
space in his unit (and has lots of other "bits", too...) He seems like
a
very genuine, friendly kind of bloke - he says he can give me a lift
back with the tank in his van, which is astonishingly generous (he
must
_really_ need that space...).
What I need to know is, as he isn't an established business and as
it's
the kind of rock-bottom price that probably comes with very few
guarantees, how can I spot a duff tank? I know too make sure all the
corners are flat to whatever surface they stand on, but would any
faults
in the sealant be obvious? Should I look for anything else? - once I
get
it home and fill it up with water it could well be too late. The
kitchen
ceiling will not withstand 67 gallons of water coming through it!

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

many thanks,

In message , NetMax
writes
"Cris" wrote in message
ws.com...
snip
The front and side panes
should be attached on top of the bottom pane rather than around the
outside.

why? Both methods are conventional construction techniques in use on
1000s of aquariums.

If he seems to know what he's doing, and has made several of his own
tanks, it's most likely going to be ok. But I wouldn't fill any tank
for the first time in the house.

If filling the tank elsewhere (lawn, driveway, garage) make sure that you
have a very flat strong surface. With 600 lbs of water, the tank will
shift to close any gaps, and may cause damage & leakage which would
otherwise not occur.

and here is the problem I'm currently trying to address! I bought the
tank (it wasn't new or home made and had previously been used for
keeping chiclids, but it was being sold to make room for the tanks he
and stuff he now needs, I hadn't quite understood); the silicone seems
to be in good condition (squidgy), the glass is two thinner sheets
laminated together per side totalling 9mm for the verticals and 11mm for
the base, and I thought yes, I'll test it by filling it with water in
the conservatory - which, I now discover, doesn't have a flat floor.
Looks flat, but isn't. I think what I'll do is get it into the right
place (once I've got a stand for it) and fill it there. I'll need to
cycle it before I put the fish in (although I was wondering about
transferring the filter sponge to the new filter and hoping that worked,
but I really don't think I'll risk it), so that should give me a chance
to see if it springs any leaks. The seller is obviously a fish obsessive
(in a good way) and assured me it was fine.
Now I just need to be reassured that if it does leak, it will do so
slowly and in one place rather than exploding... And also I need to do
research into h.o.t. filters for this size tank... And also I need to
work out if I am in fact certifiably insane to want to keep goldfish
with a sand substrate and some plants (I have some that they don't eat)
and some weather loach... And also I need to work out if I want a
cabinet thing to go underneath or a metal stand... And also I need to be
very patient with my very small son as he demands every day for the next
few weeks if we can put all the fish in the new tank yet.

wish me luck.

thank you again for your advice.
--
sophie

"sophie" wrote in message
...
In message , NetMax
writes
"Cris" wrote in message
ws.com...
snip
The front and side panes
should be attached on top of the bottom pane rather than around the
outside.

why? Both methods are conventional construction techniques in use on
1000s of aquariums.

If he seems to know what he's doing, and has made several of his own
tanks, it's most likely going to be ok. But I wouldn't fill any
tank
for the first time in the house.

If filling the tank elsewhere (lawn, driveway, garage) make sure that
you
have a very flat strong surface. With 600 lbs of water, the tank will
shift to close any gaps, and may cause damage & leakage which would
otherwise not occur.

and here is the problem I'm currently trying to address! I bought the
tank (it wasn't new or home made and had previously been used for
keeping chiclids, but it was being sold to make room for the tanks he
and stuff he now needs, I hadn't quite understood); the silicone seems
to be in good condition (squidgy), the glass is two thinner sheets
laminated together per side totalling 9mm for the verticals and 11mm
for

I've never encounter a production-built aquarium which used 2 thinner
sheets of glass.

the base, and I thought yes, I'll test it by filling it with water in
the conservatory - which, I now discover, doesn't have a flat floor.
Looks flat, but isn't. I think what I'll do is get it into the right
place (once I've got a stand for it) and fill it there. I'll need to

On a slightly uneven floor, put the tank on a sheet of 3/4" plywood which
is on top of a sheet of 1/2" styrofoam.

cycle it before I put the fish in (although I was wondering about
transferring the filter sponge to the new filter and hoping that
worked,

This is how I cycle tanks all the time. Cycling is really only a
nuisance with the first tank in your house. After that it's just moving
filters around, don't overstock and under-feed for a few weeks.

but I really don't think I'll risk it), so that should give me a chance
to see if it springs any leaks. The seller is obviously a fish
obsessive
(in a good way) and assured me it was fine.
Now I just need to be reassured that if it does leak, it will do so
slowly and in one place rather than exploding... And also I need to do
research into h.o.t. filters for this size tank... And also I need to

I have a custom glass top design for this tank which adapts to a variety
of filters.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/diy_proje...asscover.shtml

work out if I am in fact certifiably insane to want to keep goldfish
with a sand substrate and some plants (I have some that they don't eat)

Yes, I think this is a certifiable offence in some states, but we won't
tell anyone ;~)

and some weather loach... And also I need to work out if I want a
cabinet thing to go underneath or a metal stand... And also I need to
be

If you haven't already gone pricing, you will find that the cabinet might
be your most expensive component. Steel stands are stronger, but kids
can climb them so they should be fastened to the wall joist to prevent
sway (depends on your child's age). Wood cabinets have the advantage of
being able to hide a canister filter (so the tank can almost go right up
against the wall) and it keeps your fish-stuff close but hidden
(child-proofing the cabinet door can be important with 'helpful' children
;~).

very patient with my very small son as he demands every day for the
next
few weeks if we can put all the fish in the new tank yet.

I'm on his side "let's do it mom". With your aged filter, you should be
able to proceed quite quickly.
--
www.NetMax.tk


wish me luck.

thank you again for your advice.
--
sophie

In message , NetMax
writes


snipping

If filling the tank elsewhere (lawn, driveway, garage) make sure that
you
have a very flat strong surface. With 600 lbs of water, the tank will
shift to close any gaps, and may cause damage & leakage which would
otherwise not occur.

and here is the problem I'm currently trying to address! I bought the
tank (it wasn't new or home made and had previously been used for
keeping chiclids, but it was being sold to make room for the tanks he
and stuff he now needs, I hadn't quite understood); the silicone seems
to be in good condition (squidgy), the glass is two thinner sheets
laminated together per side totalling 9mm for the verticals and 11mm
for

I've never encounter a production-built aquarium which used 2 thinner
sheets of glass.

I don't know if this is a brit thing, but the small tank I have now, and
all the tanks in the LFS where I bought it - which are non-fancy and
non-branded - are laminated. Whether this means that they're
"home-made", I don't know. I do know that it's not at all uncommon round
here; I have friends with aquariums and the only one I've inspected
closely enough to remember was made of double layers of glass. I'd
understood this was for strength, although I also seem to remember
reading that laminated glass is stronger under "short burst" load than
normal glass but can behave as sliding layers under prolonged load,
(though given the directions of force in a filled aquarium I'm not sure
if that would apply). But as I've never built or tested anything made of
glass (except jewellery) in my life, it's hearsay, not fact.

the base, and I thought yes, I'll test it by filling it with water in
the conservatory - which, I now discover, doesn't have a flat floor.
Looks flat, but isn't. I think what I'll do is get it into the right
place (once I've got a stand for it) and fill it there. I'll need to

On a slightly uneven floor, put the tank on a sheet of 3/4" plywood which
is on top of a sheet of 1/2" styrofoam.

I'd understood this, (and even the reason for it!) but I'm not sure that
the floor counts as "slightly" uneven, the tank is a cm off the floor at
one end (and it is the floor that's wonky, not the tank, I checked).

cycle it before I put the fish in (although I was wondering about
transferring the filter sponge to the new filter and hoping that
worked,

This is how I cycle tanks all the time. Cycling is really only a
nuisance with the first tank in your house. After that it's just moving
filters around, don't overstock and under-feed for a few weeks.

the thing that was worrying me is that I think the gravel in the little
tank must be housing a lot of the bacteria, and if I go for the
(admittedly bonkers) sand idea, I won't be transferring the gravel. In
fact I don't think I'll be transferring the gravel anyway, as the
goldfish keep sucking it up and spitting it out, and I'm a bit worried
that one day a piece will get stuck. I'll have to fish the MTS out, too,
if I can find them. The big stones and the bogwood should carry a few
good bacteria, though? And while my current bioload is gigantic in the
small tank, it should be fine in the big one.

snick

I have a custom glass top design for this tank which adapts to a variety
of filters.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/diy_proje...asscover.shtml

I'd kind of decided to buy a glass cover rather than a hood from the
LFS; I like being able to see the fish from the top. (I was wondering
about making a wooden "frame" for the top of the tank to cover all the
edges of the glass). And contrary to everything I hear, the plants seem
fine without lights. Not fast-growing, I concede, but healthy looking
(and uneaten!) The tank is in a nice position with nice bright (but
fairly diffuse) light and a little direct sunlight at specific times of
the day (never midday, and the whole tank is never lit at the same
time).

work out if I am in fact certifiably insane to want to keep goldfish
with a sand substrate and some plants (I have some that they don't eat)

Yes, I think this is a certifiable offence in some states, but we won't
tell anyone ;~)

having plants goldies don't eat? ;-) but if I don't try, I'll never
know. and I don't _think_ it can hurt the fish; though it may eventually
prove annoying to me.



and some weather loach... And also I need to work out if I want a
cabinet thing to go underneath or a metal stand... And also I need to
be

If you haven't already gone pricing, you will find that the cabinet might
be your most expensive component.

probably. if the stand is stronger, I'll go for that. they just don't
_look_ as sturdy! He's small but pretty bright and won't climb it - and
the test kits and food are out of his reach. he really adores holding
bits of food tight between his fingers and putting his hand underwater,
and this is a treat for when he is good. messing with the fish without
mum gets this revoked indefinitely. (he also likes hunting for tiny
white worms in the compost for fish treats, but that's another story).
I'd put a "curtain" down the front of the stand, to, so the visual
climbing cue would be absent for his friends.

moresnip
.

I'm on his side "let's do it mom". With your aged filter, you should be
able to proceed quite quickly.

but first I have to buy a filter, lid and stand. not to mention all that
sand and a few more plants. Filters for this size tank aren't cheap (I
think I might fancy an eheim aquaball, if I can get one. I like my
current little fluval a lot, but I've read some really mixed reviews of
the bigger ones.) and the stands won't be cheap either, and I suspect I
won't be able to do that all in one go. the planning is half the fun,
anyway.

thanks for your time, NetMax; I really do appreciate it. I know I can be
longwinded at times, and I also know I got off to a very bad start
keeping fish, so the advice is so reassuring. I'm actually quite
surprised at how committed I can feel myself becoming about the whole
experience - if I'd been told before I bought the little tank that five
or six months later I'd own a four foot tank I think I would have backed
out in fright! but it strikes me now that a bigger tank is actually a
much more stable environment and therefore much easier to maintain, and
to keep healthy fish in.

--
sophie

In message , sophie
writes

snip

Many thanks to NetMax and Cris - fantastic advice and I shall follow it
(why on earth didn't I think of filling the tank in the garden first? -
sheer brilliance, thank you.)

I'm not sure what the seller was doing prior to starting on his own
aquatics business; I get the impression he was in the trade. I'll find
out more when I see him. I'm really hoping this is a good tank; I have
far too many fish in a small one at the moment (my LFS, frankly, lied to
me about how many goldfish I could keep in a 13 gallon and failed to
tell me they might eat minnows. I'm hoping that they don't get big
enough to do so during the minnows' natural life-span) and I need more
space! I've never kept fish before this and I want to give them a good
home.
--
sophie