Water problems?

dump the charcoal. use polyester batting and dont replace, just rinse out in treated
water.
what ARE your salt levels?
get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be leaching bleach
or ???
dont ever break down the tank and clean that thoroughly unless you got dying fish.
the walls have considerable biobug activity.
where were the fish while the tank was going thru this?
what is your alkalinity?
dont use coppersafe.
I would try 50% water changes for 3 days in a row and see if everyone is booking.
dont feed for 1 day and then only very small amounts of high quality food. see how
they are acting after 24 hours. report back. Ingrid

"Devin" wrote:
I have a 40 gallon tank.
Emperor 280 filter
charcoal cartridge
extra media tray filled with floss
24" bubblebar
change 6-9 gallons of the water every week
1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to water.
polished river rocks
4 small silk 1 large silk plant,1 live plant.
1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.

Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia 0(Zero)ppm;
Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart).
5 goldfish in tank, 2 small (only an inch long, hatched last year),
one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches overall.

Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I think
I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water. Plants
and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of the
white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).

Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running, and
a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past week
and a half and readings stay as listed above.

Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets in
the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the time.
When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for an
hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck in
her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it and
removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure. Besides
the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
veining, or any other problems.

I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the tank
and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work here.
In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on the
water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
earlier.
Devin




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be leaching
"
- I find this is one of the biggest problems with goldfish tanks. Far better
off to have an empty tank - no gravel - no plastic plants etc - gives fish more
swimming room and allows for better water quality

Will do. I'll do a 50% change today, take out the plants and other items.
I think the rocks should be fine as I don't bleach clean them (I was in
error on the first post), they're smooth river stones from the pet store, so
I only have to wipe them down with a paper towel and rinse to get rid of
alage growth.

Fish were in two other small tanks I have during the cleaning, two 10 gallon
tanks that I let set for 2 days with bubbler prior. All water was tested
prior to moving them over.

Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I've read
everything from 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons up to 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons
and none of them seem to agree (salt packages, websites, books and
magazines). So, I split the difference. Levels should be exactly that, as
I top off the tank with fresh water before removing water with waterchange,
and then I replace with aged water with the 1.5 tablespoons per 10 gallons.

Why no charcoal? Just curious.

NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings, it
becomes pretty stained.

Thanks for all of the advice, as usual.

Devin

wrote in message
...
dump the charcoal. use polyester batting and dont replace, just rinse out
in treated
water.
what ARE your salt levels?
get rocks, coral and silk plants out of tank. ... something might be
leaching bleach
or ???
dont ever break down the tank and clean that thoroughly unless you got
dying fish.
the walls have considerable biobug activity.
where were the fish while the tank was going thru this?
what is your alkalinity?
dont use coppersafe.
I would try 50% water changes for 3 days in a row and see if everyone is
booking.
dont feed for 1 day and then only very small amounts of high quality food.
see how
they are acting after 24 hours. report back. Ingrid

"Devin" wrote:
I have a 40 gallon tank.
Emperor 280 filter
charcoal cartridge
extra media tray filled with floss
24" bubblebar
change 6-9 gallons of the water every week
1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt and declor added to water.
polished river rocks
4 small silk 1 large silk plant,1 live plant.
1 small piece of coral in there to keep the PH up.
temp is 76-78 degrees depending on time of day.

Nitrite 0(zero) ppm;PH 7.6; Ammonia 0(Zero)ppm;
Nitrate is between 5 and 10 ppm (closer to 5 on chart).
5 goldfish in tank, 2 small (only an inch long, hatched last year),
one is medium with a 2 inch body, and two are large, about 8 inches
overall.

Here's the thing: had high Nitrates (almost 20ppm) a few weeks back- I
think
I goofed and overfed or something. It had been over 6 months since last
total cleaning, so I did one. Drained tank, rinsed and scrubbed the tank
with hot water. Broke apart and scrubbed out filter with hot water.
Plants
and rocks were soaked overnight in bleach and water solution, rinsed over
several days and in several different vats of fresh water, and air dried.
Scrubbed the bubble bar with hot water. (scrubbing of everything is done
with old toothbrush that is only used for aquarium cleaning, and one of
the
white nylon acrylic tank scouring pads).

Set tank back up, let it run with the filter going, bubble bar running,
and
a hang on canister filter with fresh carbon for about 36 hours.
Re-introduced fish. Have been checking water every other day over past
week
and a half and readings stay as listed above.

Okay, here's the problem. I have a large fish who keeps hiding. He gets
in
the back and wedges himself under the bubble bar and sits on the bottom.
When the tank was first re-setup, he was active. As the days went on he
first started hiding when the light was on. Now he hides all of the
time.
When it's time to get fed, he comes out and is active, eats, forages for
an
hour or so, and then hides again. I also had one of my favorite fish die
last week; I don't think it was related to this (she had had a pea stuck
in
her mouth 3 weeks ago and it was overnight before I found out about it
and
removed it, and I think it lead to her death), but I can't be sure.
Besides
the one fish hiding, none of the other fish show signs of injuries, fin
veining, or any other problems.

I think there is something wrong with the water that the tests are not
showing. Should I have replaced the bubble bar and bleach cleaned the
tank
and filter as well? Are there any other water tests I'm not doing that I
should? It seems to me that there may be waterborne parasites at work
here.
In the past I have had situations similar to this, and adding CopperSafe
medication to the water seemed to help for a while. I've done tests on
the
water right out of the tap, and they coincide with the results I listed
earlier.
Devin




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

defintely replace the batting - you want clean batting in there! - how ofter -
just depends. some every 2 weeks; some monthly; some with each water change -
depends on tank size and bioload.

defintely replace the batting - you want clean batting in there! - how ofter -
just depends. some every 2 weeks; some monthly; some with each water change -
depends on tank size and bioload.


I read somewhere that it takes a month for the good bugs to build up on your
filter material. So...I suppose logic follows that you should replace the
batting at most once per month.

there is no one salt level that is perfect, anything up to 0.1% is fine (1 tablespoon
per 5 gallons).... but it is best to slowly move up to that salt level and 1 teaspoon
is fine when a person doesnt KNOW what the natural salt level is in their water!
people often have salt levels of 0.05% naturally, so adding less is better.
salt tests are very important to prevent "salt creep" which is the accumulation of
salts to higher and higher levels in the tank. example:
10 gallon tank, 2 gallons water evaporate but salt doesnt
remove water leaving 5 gallons behind, add 5 gallons + salt for 5 gallons.
that is salt creep. no salt should be added for the evaporated salt. not to mention
natural salt levels will creep faster. it is even more likely to occur with small
water changes. without a tester good idea to do big water changes once in a while
and add no salt at all.

charcoal is just useless after a couple days in a tank with GF because GF produce so
much wastes. it just isnt needed.

Batting loaded with biobugs looks brownish. you are throwing the colonies away just
when they are forming up nicely. only toss batting when it begins to cut down on the
water flow. and then only 1/2 and put in new to cycle before tossing it all.

what is your alkalinity?



"Devin" wrote:
Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
Why no charcoal? Just curious.
NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings, it
becomes pretty stained.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

That all makes sense.

I actually do one of my water changes every month with no salt just for the
reasons you stated. I've thought of picking up a salinity meter, but
they're really expensive (even on eBay) and I just can't fit it into the
budget until I get back to work.

It sounds to me like what I should do is get another of the "media
containers" for my Emperor filter and just keep two of them in there, both
with batting. That way if I have to throw out one of them due to being
clogged, the other one will still have been in there for several weeks.
I'll order it from them this week.

I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit for
it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in there)
to replace the silk ones I removed.

FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and the
Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and rinsed
before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.

Devin

wrote in message
...
there is no one salt level that is perfect, anything up to 0.1% is fine (1
tablespoon
per 5 gallons).... but it is best to slowly move up to that salt level and
1 teaspoon
is fine when a person doesnt KNOW what the natural salt level is in their
water!
people often have salt levels of 0.05% naturally, so adding less is
better.
salt tests are very important to prevent "salt creep" which is the
accumulation of
salts to higher and higher levels in the tank. example:
10 gallon tank, 2 gallons water evaporate but salt doesnt
remove water leaving 5 gallons behind, add 5 gallons + salt for 5 gallons.
that is salt creep. no salt should be added for the evaporated salt. not
to mention
natural salt levels will creep faster. it is even more likely to occur
with small
water changes. without a tester good idea to do big water changes once in
a while
and add no salt at all.

charcoal is just useless after a couple days in a tank with GF because GF
produce so
much wastes. it just isnt needed.

Batting loaded with biobugs looks brownish. you are throwing the colonies
away just
when they are forming up nicely. only toss batting when it begins to cut
down on the
water flow. and then only 1/2 and put in new to cycle before tossing it
all.

what is your alkalinity?



"Devin" wrote:
Salt levels are at just over 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons.
Why no charcoal? Just curious.
NEVER replace the batting, or just once a month? After 3 or so rinsings,
it
becomes pretty stained.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

pond salt test kit by aquarium pharmaceuticals.
alkalinity is measure of buffering and ability to resist swings in pH ... big swings
will harm GF.
put a pinch of the food in a glass of tank water and check for ammonia. some food
release it directly into the tank (good for fishless cycling tho)
if you can see GF poop, you are overfeeding. also, rinse filters once a week whether
they need it or not to get excess food/poop out which is just sitting there rotting
and fouling the tank.
it is not recommended to feed live or dried or frozen type foods to indoor tank fish.
however, somebody did a test found zapping food for 30 seconds in microwave killed
the cooties. Ingrid

"Devin" wrote:
I've thought of picking up a salinity meter,
I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit for
it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in there)
to replace the silk ones I removed.
FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and the
Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and rinsed
before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.
Devin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I grabbed a strip test kit earlier today. It tested the following:

PH 7.2
Alkalinity (KH) 80 ppm
Total Hardness (GH) 75
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

I must have been overfeeding by your definition, I can see waste at times in
there. I had a hard time deciding how much to feed them, as a lot of places
say "as much as they will eat in 2 minutes". Well, my fish are swimming
piggies and would eat a 5 pound roast in 2 minutes! I'm cutting them back.
I'll also cut down the frozen food and try zapping it as well. They won't
be happy with that, though, they love that stuff.

I also got a new bubble bar today and will replace that tonight, to make
sure it doesn't have anything in it.

I guess the bio-wheel in the Emperor's doesn't keep enough bio-bugs in it?

Devin

wrote in message
...
pond salt test kit by aquarium pharmaceuticals.
alkalinity is measure of buffering and ability to resist swings in pH ...
big swings
will harm GF.
put a pinch of the food in a glass of tank water and check for ammonia.
some food
release it directly into the tank (good for fishless cycling tho)
if you can see GF poop, you are overfeeding. also, rinse filters once a
week whether
they need it or not to get excess food/poop out which is just sitting
there rotting
and fouling the tank.
it is not recommended to feed live or dried or frozen type foods to indoor
tank fish.
however, somebody did a test found zapping food for 30 seconds in
microwave killed
the cooties. Ingrid

"Devin" wrote:
I've thought of picking up a salinity meter,
I have no idea of the alkalinity of the water. I'll look for a test kit
for
it today. I'm going to get two more live plants (already have one in
there)
to replace the silk ones I removed.
FOOD- I forgot to mention the foods I use. I use the Hikari flakes and
the
Marine Labs slow sinking pellets, alternating this as their morning food.
At night I feed them frozen brine shrimp or blood worms, thawed and
rinsed
before being put in the tank. I feed green peas about once a week.
Devin


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

the 2 minute recommendation is fine for single tailed fish, altho the food goes in
and comes out pretty fast without all getting digested and then it just fouls the
water. but for fancies overfeeding is deadly.
correct, biowheels are good for trops, but GF are soooo dirty. Ingrid

"Devin" wrote:
I must have been overfeeding by your definition, I can see waste at times in
there. I had a hard time deciding how much to feed them, as a lot of places
say "as much as they will eat in 2 minutes". Well, my fish are swimming
piggies and would eat a 5 pound roast in 2 minutes! I'm cutting them back.
I'll also cut down the frozen food and try zapping it as well. They won't
be happy with that, though, they love that stuff.
I guess the bio-wheel in the Emperor's doesn't keep enough bio-bugs in it?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.