Evil, evil snails

"Donald K" wrote in message
...
Dark Phoenix wrote:

My pH is waaaay over that... but... doesn't the copper sulfate kill
the plants, too? It does a number on terrestrial plants.

Think chemotherapy.
--
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort." -Herm Albright

I get it. Take it to death's door, but not through it.

BTW, I love your quote.

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

Error. Install universe and reboot.

"Donald K" wrote in message
...
Dark Phoenix wrote:

Until I found out they could carry flukes, and thus be a
probable cause of the bacterial infection I'm still fighting after two
months, I was leaving them to cruise the algae. They made neat
patterns in it.

Remove goldfish. 100% water change. Nice and clean. Add loaches (clown
or weather). Wait a week or so. Put those cute little loaches back in
their own tank, replace goldfish.

See those cute little barbels? Specially designed to get snails out of
their shells... Heh, heh, heh.

-D

Hmm. I wonder if the LFS would let me borrow a couple? I've spend enough
money there! ;-)

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

Error. Install universe and reboot.

wrote in message
...
uh... not sure cause I have used copper sulfate like stuff to kill fungus
on my
orchids. Ingrid


You need more drainage or more air movement, this helps greatly.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Dark Phoenix" wrote in message
...

"Donald K" wrote in message
...
Dark Phoenix wrote:

Until I found out they could carry flukes, and thus be a
probable cause of the bacterial infection I'm still fighting after two
months, I was leaving them to cruise the algae. They made neat
patterns in it.

Remove goldfish. 100% water change. Nice and clean. Add loaches (clown
or weather). Wait a week or so. Put those cute little loaches back in
their own tank, replace goldfish.

See those cute little barbels? Specially designed to get snails out of
their shells... Heh, heh, heh.

-D

Hmm. I wonder if the LFS would let me borrow a couple? I've spend enough
money there! ;-)

--
Laurie, Dark Phoenix

Error. Install universe and reboot.



Odd though, I know a local LFS that uses goldies to exterminate the snails..
I myself use Yoyo's, but I have been wondering if they have not been eatting
my african fry... I have an AQ 300 filter block full of the bloody things..
Yet the itself is clear.. The occupents would be a small koi, goldies and
guppies ( hanging in the weeds ).. No snails inside the tank, just the
fliter...

Tim..

in article , Dark Phoenix at
wrote on 5/12/04 12:23 AM:


"Chris Oinonen Ehren" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't call them mystery snails, since that term is usually associated
with apple snails, and I doubt an apple snail (usually about the size of a
cherry or bigger) came in on your plants without you knowing.

Regarding your stowaway snail: Why don't you just squish it? As you
become
aware of more of them, you can squish them, too.

Sounds like you are worried about them being carriers of some kind of
disease--if that is the case it is too late for removing those plants to
do
you any good. (Can an animal carry parasites while still in the egg?) I'd
wait and see if any more snails appear. That might have been the only
one.
You don't want to tear everything apart "just in case"--that won't do your
fish any good.

I believe there is some kind of chemical dip you can use on new plants so
that no snails/eggs survive on them, but I can't remember the name of it.
Might want to use something like that in the future.


Hmm... we know what apple snails are; why are they called mystery snails?
And no, these aren't apples or ramshorns.

I've seen various Apple Snails called that for twenty years or more. I
suspect its because it is really tricky to tell within the genus what
species you have, so rather than try to say "I'm selling Pomacea Bridgesii"
and then find out they're really selling Pomacea Canalculata they would say
"I'm selling mystery snails". If you google "mystery snails" you'll see
they still use that term for apples of all kinds. Better to say "Pond
Snails" or stowaways or something.


I do squish them- well, I take the out and toss them to the chickens. Little
escargot treat. I'm just tired of thinking I've got the tank de-eviled, and
then finding... more of them. Are these things born pregnant??? Have babies
while they're still invisible to the naked eye??? Until I found out they
could carry flukes, and thus be a probable cause of the bacterial infection
I'm still fighting after two months, I was leaving them to cruise the algae.
They made neat patterns in it.

Hmm. What kind of flukes? I suspect that snails are infected after
hatching, rather than being laid infected. All I've been able to find out
with Google indicates that snails have to have fluke eggs available to pick
up with their food in order to be infected. Sounds like they aren't hatched
already infected.

No, snails can't reproduce when they're still invisible. (Somebody asked
that). But their eggs are really hard to spot, and newly hatched snails
are hard to spot. But if the snails are so small they can't be easily seen,
they can't have been hatched for more than a few days. So if you got your
plants in the pet store they hatched out at the pet store, and can't pick up
flukes unless they were hatched in an infected tank. If you got them at the
lake (or pond, or creek) you might still have a problem.

What is the genus species name on the flukes you are worried about? It
would be easier to find helpful articles if we knew that.
--
Chris

look up black spot disease of fish, among other diseases carried by snails. more
diseases are known in humans, a more intense area of scientific investigation.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Ingird,

I can not believe the misinformation that you give out
all the time. You want to blame snails for just about
everything.

The temperate version of Black spot disease has a
secondary host as a Mollusk not a snail, the tropical
form of black spot disease is associated with a
specific snail that occurs in Malaysia but has made its
way to isolated areas of Florida due to the tropical
fish trade. The other forms of Black spot disease are
associated with Marine (sal****er) Cold water fish,
Marine (sal****er) tropical fish and probably do not
need to be discussed here on the Goldfish list.

Golly geee.

One of these days you might think about doing some
reading before you start relating this misinformation.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------


wrote:
look up black spot disease of fish, among other diseases carried by snails. more
diseases are known in humans, a more intense area of scientific investigation.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Laurie,

Who told you they could carry flukes. There is only
one fluke species where a snail is a secondary host and
this occurs regional in the mountainous regions of the
Northwest, and requires a specific species of snail for
it to occur, so unless you live in the mountains of
Washington or Oregon state, I doubt if you got flukes
from a snail. Most of the flukes that bother Goldfish
have nothing to do with snails as intermediate hosts.

Snails can get bacterial infections, but chances are if
they have a bacterial infection they got it from your
fish, which can carry diseases and will only show up
when the fish becomes stressed, which is why it is
important to quarantine fish a month before adding them
to your local population of fish and during this month
you and do a pre-treatment of drugs on the fish to get
rid of the buggers.

If you are actually worried about this you need to take
the fluke or the suspect infect fish to the lab to get
it analyzed professionally than trying to get guesses
from the internet. A good microscope can also see the
little buggers also, but let me say, that very few
diseases in aquariums or ponds are transmitted via
snails and it is only via very rare cases that it is seen.

You need to get the "Fancy Goldfish" Book by Rick Hess
and Dr. Johnson. It is very informative and actually
has picture to help identify problems.

HTH

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------

Dark Phoenix wrote:

"Chris Oinonen Ehren" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't call them mystery snails, since that term is usually associated
with apple snails, and I doubt an apple snail (usually about the size of a
cherry or bigger) came in on your plants without you knowing.

Regarding your stowaway snail: Why don't you just squish it? As you

become

aware of more of them, you can squish them, too.

Sounds like you are worried about them being carriers of some kind of
disease--if that is the case it is too late for removing those plants to

do

you any good. (Can an animal carry parasites while still in the egg?) I'd
wait and see if any more snails appear. That might have been the only

one.

You don't want to tear everything apart "just in case"--that won't do your
fish any good.

I believe there is some kind of chemical dip you can use on new plants so
that no snails/eggs survive on them, but I can't remember the name of it.
Might want to use something like that in the future.



Hmm... we know what apple snails are; why are they called mystery snails?
And no, these aren't apples or ramshorns.

I do squish them- well, I take the out and toss them to the chickens. Little
escargot treat. I'm just tired of thinking I've got the tank de-eviled, and
then finding... more of them. Are these things born pregnant??? Have babies
while they're still invisible to the naked eye??? Until I found out they
could carry flukes, and thus be a probable cause of the bacterial infection
I'm still fighting after two months, I was leaving them to cruise the algae.
They made neat patterns in it.

in article , at
wrote on 5/16/04 11:15 PM:

look up black spot disease of fish, among other diseases carried by snails.
more
diseases are known in humans, a more intense area of scientific investigation.
Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
Here's what I found at
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~pa.../uvulifer.html

"Several members of this genus cause "black spot" in fish --- the best known
species is Uvulifer ambloplitis.* The life cycles of most members of this
genus are similar.* The definitive host is most often a bird, and the
parasite's eggs are passed in the bird's feces.* The first intermediate host
is a snail, and the second intermediate host is a fish.* The fish is
infected when cercariae penetrate the skin.* The cercariae lose their tails
and transform into a stage called the "neascus larva" or "neascus
metacercaria."* The definitive host is infected when it eats an infected
second intermediate host.

These encysted metacercariae often turn black and are visible on the fish's
surface -- hence, "black spot" in fish.* Heavily infected fish are often
discarded by fishermen, although they pose no threat of infection to
humans."

So, the life cycle goes snails eat eggs from bird poop, snails pass the
parasite on to fish, and fish are eaten by birds completing the cycle.

Snails that are wild-caught, or raised in situations where they may get
access to bird poop (outdoor culture ponds, etc.) can pick up the parasites
and pass them on to fish, while snails that have no access to bird poop,
that have lived for generations inside various aquariums, can't pass on the
parasites.

Because I keep snails, I have done google-research (research lite) on a
number of different parasites that snails can carry and pass on to fish and
humans. What I have found over and over is that only snails that live
outdoors pick up these parasites. Snails cannot give these parasites to
each other, and the parasites I have researched do not get passed on in the
snails' eggs.

An uninfected snail can not pass on these parasites. So while it would be a
good idea to keep snails out of your outdoor ponds so as to interrupt the
potential parasite life cycle, in an aquarium the life cycle is already
interrupted, due to the lack of birds.

You always need to know your sources of plants and animals. It would make
sense to treat any new plant you got in a 10 mg/liter potassium permanganate
solution to kill any snails or snail eggs especially since you don't want
them. And if you got any snails that you wanted it would make sense to know
their source & history, and quarantine them for awhile like any other new
addition knowing that they could potentially be a source of problems. In
snails with a fast life cycle it makes sense to culture them separately and
only introduce the young to your aquarium.

That said, after more than 20 years of keeping many various species of
snails, aquarium cultured and wild caught, I have never seen any of these
parasites in my fish.
--
Chris

Tom L. La Bron wrote:
Ingird,

I can not believe the misinformation that you give out all the time.
You want to blame snails for just about everything.

The temperate version of Black spot disease has a secondary host as a
Mollusk not a snail, the tropical form of black spot disease is
associated with a specific snail that occurs in Malaysia but has made
its way to isolated areas of Florida due to the tropical fish trade.
The other forms of Black spot disease are associated with Marine
(sal****er) Cold water fish, Marine (sal****er) tropical fish and
probably do not need to be discussed here on the Goldfish list.

Golly geee.

One of these days you might think about doing some reading before you
start relating this misinformation.

Tom L.L.
----------------------------------------------


wrote:

look up black spot disease of fish, among other diseases carried by
snails. more
diseases are known in humans, a more intense area of scientific
investigation.
Ingrid


Tom,
I agree with you. I have and had alot of apple snails for years. I am a
fan of www.applesnail.net I'm not to crazy of the pest snails ie
tadpoles, red ramshorn but having all of these I never had a fish catch
anything from them. Only problem I had once was my Goldfish got a red
ramshorn caught in his mouth, I picked him up and gently worked the
snail out of his mouth, that really scared me. But after awhile all the
snails disapeared. I assume the fish ate the small snails and eggs. I
picked the big ones out and I never keep my apple snails with my
goldfish cause he will try and get thier "feelers" Or knock them off the
glass.

kay