Fish as pets

Me too. They're much cheaper than pond fish...

Bonnie wrote:

Considering yesterday I had tuna for lunch and salmon for
dinner - can you guess where I stand? I do promise never
to eat fish from my pond ;-)

--
Bonnie
NJ

derek wrote: PETA doesn't believe in pets. They call it a
form of slavery.

Considering the amount of care and feeding and beck and calling I do around
here, I think it's probably the other way around. kathy :-)

Excellent comeback to PETA's mission. Other than the enjoyment of watching
them swim around, my fish do no work, heck, they don't even have to swim
around, and most couldn't live "in the wild", it would be cruelty to let
them be "free".

I've always wondered, is it better to live 12-18 months (think steers) or
never to have lived at all? ~ jan

Bummer snicker: Save a Cow eat a Peta Supporter.


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


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"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...

Excellent comeback to PETA's mission. Other than the enjoyment of watching
them swim around, my fish do no work, heck, they don't even have to swim
around, and most couldn't live "in the wild", it would be cruelty to let
them be "free".

I've always wondered, is it better to live 12-18 months (think steers) or
never to have lived at all? ~ jan


The reality is modern farm animals have been selectively bred to be as dumb,
docile and as large as possible over the past few thousand years. Compare
the size of frozen turkeys found in grocery stores. Modern factory turkeys
are these large dumb birds, that are too big to survive on their own, in
their historical natural environment.

If you could somehow travel in time to 1400 CE and release a flock of
factory turkeys in north america, the whole flock probably would become a
great feast to the first pack of wolves it runs into. Can a factory turkey
even fly?

Same holds true for cattle, chickens and sheep. Even 100 years ago, a cow
had to have enough intelligence to survive living on the plains alone or
with the herd for a few months at a time. These days intelligent cattle
panic when they're hoisted onto the conveyor, and release all kinds of
hormones into the bloodstream which ruins the flavor of the meat. Sheep are
reputed to be dumb enough that an entire flock will follow the leader off of
a cliff.

My favorite is PETA's stance on pets such as dogs and cats. Mother nature
has decided the ideal size for a member of the Canidae family is in the
range of a fox, wolf, coyote, dingo, african wild dog, hyena. This means
things like the toy group, small terriers, etc wouldn't survive. Same goes
for cats, a lot of fancy breeds just wouldn't survive for long.

Snooze

"Snooze" wrote in message
om...

necessary snippage for bottom posting


Same holds true for cattle, chickens and sheep. Even 100 years ago, a cow
had to have enough intelligence to survive living on the plains alone or
with the herd for a few months at a time.

I have always read that the reason herd animals live in herds is that they
would die on their own, especially out in the wild.

Sheep are
reputed to be dumb enough that an entire flock will follow the leader off
of
a cliff.

My kids learned in jr. high history that buffalo would do that, and that was
one of the ways they were hunted before they had the horses that were
brought over by the French. My own history book had a print of an old
painting that showed native hunters with buffalo hides on their backs
crouched beside a cliff that the buffalo were running over.

Ann in Houston wrote:


"Snooze" wrote in message
om...

Same holds true for cattle, chickens and sheep. Even 100 years ago, a cow
had to have enough intelligence to survive living on the plains alone or
with the herd for a few months at a time.

I have always read that the reason herd animals live in herds is that they
would die on their own, especially out in the wild.

There are herd animals and herd animals. Horses (and zebras - not sure
about Asses) do _very_ poorly on their own. Cattle (especially horned
varieties) tend to be quite capable of living alone. Deer (other than
Reindeer/Caribou), though they will gather in groups (especially in winter,
which is at least in part a defence against wolf packs), tend to pretty
small herds. On the British moors, even sheep don't seem very herd-like
(of course, they've got no predators, either).
--
derek

From: "Snooze"
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Newsgroups: rec.ponds
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:17:26 GMT
Subject: Fish as pets

The reality is modern farm animals have been selectively bred to be as dumb,
docile and as large as possible over the past few thousand years. Compare
the size of frozen turkeys found in grocery stores. Modern factory turkeys
are these large dumb birds, that are too big to survive on their own, in
their historical natural environment.

If you could somehow travel in time to 1400 CE and release a flock of
factory turkeys in north america, the whole flock probably would become a
great feast to the first pack of wolves it runs into. Can a factory turkey
even fly?

Same holds true for cattle, chickens and sheep. Even 100 years ago, a cow
had to have enough intelligence to survive living on the plains alone or
with the herd for a few months at a time. These days intelligent cattle
panic when they're hoisted onto the conveyor, and release all kinds of
hormones into the bloodstream which ruins the flavor of the meat. Sheep are
reputed to be dumb enough that an entire flock will follow the leader off of
a cliff.

My favorite is PETA's stance on pets such as dogs and cats. Mother nature
has decided the ideal size for a member of the Canidae family is in the
range of a fox, wolf, coyote, dingo, african wild dog, hyena. This means
things like the toy group, small terriers, etc wouldn't survive. Same goes
for cats, a lot of fancy breeds just wouldn't survive for long.

Snooze


I don't think PETA would disagree with any of this. I think their main
point would be that raising animals as food or breeding animals for certain
traits to suit our human tastes is disrespectful to the animal and to life
itself. Although I detest the way PETA conducts itself, they don't hold the
patent on promoting respect for animals. Many of us who are not terrorist,
nutcases cringe at the response by some that just because an animal is dumb
or weak that its life is therefore meaningless unless it provides some use
for humans. We have not only treated animals like this but we have also
treated other humans like this. We eventually realized that this was wrong.
It is not such a huge leap to equate animal suffering to human slavery.

On or about Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:06:15 GMT, "Ann in Houston"
wrote something like:


"Snooze" wrote in message
. com...

Sheep are
reputed to be dumb enough that an entire flock will follow the leader off
of a cliff.

My kids learned in jr. high history that buffalo would do that, and that was
one of the ways they were hunted before they had the horses that were
brought over by the French.

Bison. Spanish.
But your point is taken and the bones are there to prove it.
BTW, have you seen some of the newer studies that say the migration
route onto the NA/SA continent was from the East, not the land bridge
across Canada?
--
Crashj

Crashj wrote:
BTW, have you seen some of the newer studies that say the migration
route onto the NA/SA continent was from the East, not the land bridge
across Canada?

The emerging trend in human colonization of the American continents is
that there was more than one migration. There is evidence of a negroid
population at the tip of South America, perhaps from the same group that
colonized Australia (as at least one fossil forensics reconstruction
yielded an aborginal looking face). Most likely they would have arrived by
sea and supposedly there are cave paintings of boats that could be
sea-capable to back that. Some also postulate a European seafaring group
(Vikings, Norse, etc) came across from the Atlantic and formed earlier
settlements on the eastern seaboard. But from what I've read, the current
consensus is that the mongoloid people who are though to have come over
the Bering land bridge were the most successful, either wiping out or
intermixing with earlier settlements until they were the majority.

There's also a researcher claiming to have discovered a 50,000 year old
site in eastern USA recently, but it is not yet peer-reviewed or
confirmed. Some other researchers discount the theorized evidence of stone
tools discovered in that layer to just be random chipping. I believe the
researcher postulates that no one has found anything that old due to lack
of digging that deep (or so the article seemed to imply). If so and the
researcher turns out to be correct, it would be a big reminder to science
to not let one's preconceived notions dictate ones research direction (in
this case, dig depth). Here's the CNN article on the matter:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science...dig/index.html

george wrote:

"Ka30P" wrote in message
...


Sympathy for the guppy: PETA campaign pitches fish as smart and sensitive
Tuesday November 16, 2004
By DAVID CRARY
AP National Writer
NEW YORK (AP) Touting tofu chowder and vegetarian sushi as alternatives,
animal-rights activists have launched a novel campaign arguing that fish
contrary to stereotype are intelligent, sensitive animals no more deserving of
being eaten than a pet dog or cat.



Despite the fact that fish oil is just about the best food for the human heart,
and there is no substitute.



Called the Fish Empathy Project, the campaign reflects a strategy shift by
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals as it challenges a diet component
widely viewed as nutritious and uncontroversial.

``No one would ever put a hook through a dog's or cat's mouth,'' said Bruce
Friedrich, PETA's director of vegan outreach. ``Once people start to
understand
that fish, although they come in different packaging, are just as intelligent,
they'll stop eating them.''



Next, he'll be having elderly ladies brought up on charges of animal cruelty for
stepping on ants on sidewalks.



The campaign is in its infancy and will face broad skepticism. Major groups
such as the American Heart Association recommend fish as part of a healthy
diet; some academics say it is wrong to portray the intelligence and pain
sensitivity of fish as comparable to mammals.

Rest of the article can be found he
http://wcco.com/national/FishEmpathy...rces_news_html



Brought to you by the same people who fire bombed a research laboratory,
jeapardizing the lives of the researchers working there and the firemen who had
to put the fire out. Brought to you by the same people who made and distributed
an "educational" video on how to make homemade incendiary bombs for use in said
firebombings. Watch for them to picket your garden ponds.


Ok, now where did I put my cleaning rods and oils???? :-P :-P . Wonder
if I need to up the grains or if rock salt will do the trick?

Crashj wrote:

But your point is taken and the bones are there to prove it.
BTW, have you seen some of the newer studies that say the migration
route onto the NA/SA continent was from the East, not the land bridge
across Canada?

Oh, sure. Next thing they'll be saying Thor Heyerdahl was right...
--
derek