Frequent water changes.

Hi all!
I'm fairly new to keeping goldfish, though growing up as a kid, my brother
and I bred Siamese fighting fish and Paradise fish and kept and bred all
sorts of tropicals as well, so I have a basic understanding of the
requirements.
Recently (about 16 days ago), I decided to get back into it again, but
thought that goldfish would be fairly easy to keep by comparison, and set up
a 70 litre tank(this is around 15.5 imperial gallons I believe), and let it
run for 2 days before introducing 8 goldfish, all around 2" in body length,
excluding tail fins.
At the time of filling I used a Chlorine neutraliser, the tank is landscaped
with gravel, a piece of lava rock and artificial plants (I know what
goldfish can do to live ones!).
I have since discovered that the tank is overstocked and that additionally,
I should have added "feeders" to get it "cycling" (sigh...things were so
much simpler in the old days).
Since then, I have had an outbreak of White Spot (I think it's called Ick or
Ich in the States) which appeared to affect only one of my charges. The
retailer where I purchased the fish advised me to use a product containing
Malachite Green and Acriflavin which I dutifully added to the tank and
repeated the dose after 3 days. None of the other residents at any time
exhibited any sign of the parasite. This poor little bugger struggled on
though with no sign of getting any better until I could not bare his
suffering anymore and finally euthanased him in the freezer in a tupperware
container of the tank water, letting it gradually get colder and colder
until.......
I have been doing weekly water changes of 25%. Yesterday, in an effort to
try and remove some of the white spot cure from the water, I did a 50% water
change and tested the Nitrate levels afterwards, they were around 20-50
mg/l,and from what I understand, this is acceptable. I had not checked them
at all prior to this.
I am now beginning to wonder whether the appearance of the white spot was
due to stress, perhaps brought on by overstocking. Since changing 50% of the
water yesterday, I have to admit they are all very bright eyed and bushy
tailed today.
So my question is whether it would be prudent to do water changes more
frequently and if so, how much of a change would be recommended.
Additionally, winter is slowly decending on us here in Australia, and I am
considering heating the water. The tank is set up in my living room and
during winter, we usually have the oil heater in there going full tilt, so
whilst we are in there, the fish would probably enjoy the warmth, but the
heater is then turned off over night and I am thinking that a heater would
keep the water temperature more constant.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

They suggest about 10 gallons per goldfish, as they like to excrete a lot of
ammonia... If you look at other posts, they also don't recommend gravel, as
the fish will choke on it...
The ammonia & nitrate/'trites should ideally be at 0.... You may consider
getting a larger tank... Some fish stores have old displays they sell cheap...
; ) Best of luck and good on ya.....

I could hear Ingrid cry.....
EMERGENCY!

Get a 50 gallon bucket, age the water 24 hours with an airstone
(to get the chlorine out) make sure the water temp matches your tank,
and dump 6 of your 8 fish in there or say goodbye to all your freinds.

The golden rule is 10gallons per inch of goldfish. you are 1000%
overstocked on a tank that hasn't cycled! Yikes!. 20-50mg/l Nitrate is
OK, but your probably way over Ammonia and Nitrite levels.

You should not have more than 1 fish in that tank for at least 36 days,
that will ensure your tank gets cycled. Then i wouldn't add more than
1 or 2 more fish MAX.

Time to get a 120gallon tank.

....Kodiak


"cabaloz" wrote in message
...
Hi all!
I'm fairly new to keeping goldfish, though growing up as a kid, my brother
and I bred Siamese fighting fish and Paradise fish and kept and bred all
sorts of tropicals as well, so I have a basic understanding of the
requirements.
Recently (about 16 days ago), I decided to get back into it again, but
thought that goldfish would be fairly easy to keep by comparison, and set
up
a 70 litre tank(this is around 15.5 imperial gallons I believe), and let
it
run for 2 days before introducing 8 goldfish, all around 2" in body
length,
excluding tail fins.
At the time of filling I used a Chlorine neutraliser, the tank is
landscaped
with gravel, a piece of lava rock and artificial plants (I know what
goldfish can do to live ones!).
I have since discovered that the tank is overstocked and that
additionally,
I should have added "feeders" to get it "cycling" (sigh...things were so
much simpler in the old days).
Since then, I have had an outbreak of White Spot (I think it's called Ick
or
Ich in the States) which appeared to affect only one of my charges. The
retailer where I purchased the fish advised me to use a product containing
Malachite Green and Acriflavin which I dutifully added to the tank and
repeated the dose after 3 days. None of the other residents at any time
exhibited any sign of the parasite. This poor little bugger struggled on
though with no sign of getting any better until I could not bare his
suffering anymore and finally euthanased him in the freezer in a
tupperware
container of the tank water, letting it gradually get colder and colder
until.......
I have been doing weekly water changes of 25%. Yesterday, in an effort to
try and remove some of the white spot cure from the water, I did a 50%
water
change and tested the Nitrate levels afterwards, they were around 20-50
mg/l,and from what I understand, this is acceptable. I had not checked
them
at all prior to this.
I am now beginning to wonder whether the appearance of the white spot was
due to stress, perhaps brought on by overstocking. Since changing 50% of
the
water yesterday, I have to admit they are all very bright eyed and bushy
tailed today.
So my question is whether it would be prudent to do water changes more
frequently and if so, how much of a change would be recommended.
Additionally, winter is slowly decending on us here in Australia, and I am
considering heating the water. The tank is set up in my living room and
during winter, we usually have the oil heater in there going full tilt, so
whilst we are in there, the fish would probably enjoy the warmth, but the
heater is then turned off over night and I am thinking that a heater would
keep the water temperature more constant.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

keeping goldfish is not too hard - but there are certain things you
should do:
keep temp constant - for fancy goldfish - 76-78 - use a heater and thermometer
don't overstock - 1 fish for 10 gallons
keep good water quality - use overfiltration and frequent water changes.
Don't over feed. They are messy fish
use a barebottom tank- no gravel
don't cycle a tank with goldfish - use zebra danios or a piece of dead shrimp

Though not an experienced goldfish keeper by any means, I have a couple
of things to add. Not adding gravel is silly. Just don't get gravel
small enough for them to inhale/choke on/etc. River rock, 1/2 to 3/4" is
widely available, cheap, aesthetically pleasing, and perfectly safe for
the goldfish. They are bottom feeders and giving them a terrain on which
to scavenge strikes me as more "natural" than nothing or just sand. I've
been running a 15 gallon (tall) tank for about 6 weeks. Got an
under-gravel-filter with a thin layer of smaller gravel and a thicker
layer of river rock on top. The UGF system needs substrate in which
beneficial bacteria can develop, and with a fish tank (no plants) you
want a nicely aerated substrate to help keep the chemistry balanced.
Also, there is a variety of goldfish called "Siamese Dolls", which comes
in various forms, that grows no larger than 1.5" to 3" as far as I can
tell. Thus, two fancy fantail Siamese Dolls I have in my 15g tank should
be fine for their lifespans. I had comets (feeders) in there for about
two weeks before switching in the Dolls (I gave the comets to my LFS; no
need to end life unnecessarily). I have no heater and no light, though
the tank is not far from three northern windows and right under a
northern skylight (it's the opposite for you all down under obviously).
As I understand it, goldish prefer to have a colder time of year; I've
read and heard folks talk of putting their goldfish outdoors in winter,
depending on local conditions.

By the way, totally unrelated, I have a couple of Kiwi plants growing
away on my south-facing balcony. When I first got them I tried to train
them to vine clockwise, as every natural thing in the northern
hemisphere does, as drains drain, etc. They would not take, and these
are plants raise here in Oregon. When I finally stopped fighting them,
let them vine counter-clockwise, they took off. Amazing, they have some
genetic memory that keeps them vining counter-clockwise even though the
sun moves in the opposite direction every day from their homeland.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...0/phy00733.htm
"The vortex of water going down a drain spins clockwise in the northern hemisphere
and counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere is myth, not fact. "
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/mg/botany/stems6.html
"Twining vines circle a structure for support. Some circle clockwise (e.g., hops and
honeysuckle), while others circle counterclockwise (e.g., pole beans and Dutchman's
pipe vine)."
Ingrid


By the way, totally unrelated, I have a couple of Kiwi plants growing
away on my south-facing balcony. When I first got them I tried to train
them to vine clockwise, as every natural thing in the northern
hemisphere does, as drains drain, etc. They would not take, and these
are plants raise here in Oregon. When I finally stopped fighting them,
let them vine counter-clockwise, they took off. Amazing, they have some
genetic memory that keeps them vining counter-clockwise even though the
sun moves in the opposite direction every day from their homeland.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates
2. do the fish physical
3. change some or all of the water, add 1 teaspoon salt per 5 gallons water
4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action
5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/care/...htm#essentials


"cabaloz" wrote:

Hi all!
I'm fairly new to keeping goldfish, though growing up as a kid, my brother
and I bred Siamese fighting fish and Paradise fish and kept and bred all
sorts of tropicals as well, so I have a basic understanding of the
requirements.
Recently (about 16 days ago), I decided to get back into it again, but
thought that goldfish would be fairly easy to keep by comparison, and set up
a 70 litre tank(this is around 15.5 imperial gallons I believe), and let it
run for 2 days before introducing 8 goldfish, all around 2" in body length,
excluding tail fins.
At the time of filling I used a Chlorine neutraliser, the tank is landscaped
with gravel, a piece of lava rock and artificial plants (I know what
goldfish can do to live ones!).
I have since discovered that the tank is overstocked and that additionally,
I should have added "feeders" to get it "cycling" (sigh...things were so
much simpler in the old days).
Since then, I have had an outbreak of White Spot (I think it's called Ick or
Ich in the States) which appeared to affect only one of my charges. The
retailer where I purchased the fish advised me to use a product containing
Malachite Green and Acriflavin which I dutifully added to the tank and
repeated the dose after 3 days. None of the other residents at any time
exhibited any sign of the parasite. This poor little bugger struggled on
though with no sign of getting any better until I could not bare his
suffering anymore and finally euthanased him in the freezer in a tupperware
container of the tank water, letting it gradually get colder and colder
until.......
I have been doing weekly water changes of 25%. Yesterday, in an effort to
try and remove some of the white spot cure from the water, I did a 50% water
change and tested the Nitrate levels afterwards, they were around 20-50
mg/l,and from what I understand, this is acceptable. I had not checked them
at all prior to this.
I am now beginning to wonder whether the appearance of the white spot was
due to stress, perhaps brought on by overstocking. Since changing 50% of the
water yesterday, I have to admit they are all very bright eyed and bushy
tailed today.
So my question is whether it would be prudent to do water changes more
frequently and if so, how much of a change would be recommended.
Additionally, winter is slowly decending on us here in Australia, and I am
considering heating the water. The tank is set up in my living room and
during winter, we usually have the oil heater in there going full tilt, so
whilst we are in there, the fish would probably enjoy the warmth, but the
heater is then turned off over night and I am thinking that a heater would
keep the water temperature more constant.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mark




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.