Fish dying

In the last month, I've found two of my goldfish in my outdoor pond
dead. The water chemistry is fine except for the hardness being too
low. I added a bunch of dolomite lime almost a month ago after the
first fish died, and the hardness is improving, although the pH today
was still on the low side. I don't know of any toxins that could
have gotten into the water, and the fish showed no obvious sign of
injury. Is there something else I should be doing or thinking about
to protect my remaining fish?

Thanks.

Joan
___________________

next time do a quick physical, especially looking at slime coat and gills.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/technique/technique.html#Jo_Ann's_Fish_Physical
when nothing shows on outside and no symptoms it is "sudden death" and this is fast
changing water parameters, like loss of oxygen or toxic spike ... or, it could be
internal bacteria. Ingrid

JGW wrote:

In the last month, I've found two of my goldfish in my outdoor pond
dead. The water chemistry is fine except for the hardness being too
low. I added a bunch of dolomite lime almost a month ago after the
first fish died, and the hardness is improving, although the pH today
was still on the low side. I don't know of any toxins that could
have gotten into the water, and the fish showed no obvious sign of
injury. Is there something else I should be doing or thinking about
to protect my remaining fish?

Thanks.

Joan
___________________




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Thanks for responding. I did look quickly at the fish, and I noticed
a purplish discoloration around her abdomen. I couldn't tell if she
had been injured or was sick, or whether maybe she had been dead a
while and the color change meant she was beginning to decompose. Any
thoughts about that?

Thanks for the link to the Fish Physical website. That's great to
have!

Joan

next time do a quick physical, especially looking at slime coat and gills.
http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/technique/technique.html#Jo_Ann's_Fish_Physical
when nothing shows on outside and no symptoms it is "sudden death" and this is fast
changing water parameters, like loss of oxygen or toxic spike ... or, it could be
internal bacteria. Ingrid

Internal spawning injuries and/or infected eggs would account for what you see.
spawning bruises most certainly would look purplish. Ingrid

JGW wrote:
Thanks for responding. I did look quickly at the fish, and I noticed
a purplish discoloration around her abdomen. I couldn't tell if she
had been injured or was sick, or whether maybe she had been dead a
while and the color change meant she was beginning to decompose. Any
thoughts about that?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Again, thanks for responding!

Today I found another fish dead. :-(

Again, I checked the water chemistry. pH 7.4, nitrite and ammonia
negative, hardness as before. I added a little more lime to the
filter and cleaned the pumps and checked to make sure the air pump and
waterfall are working okay.

I did find some aphids on a couple of the pond lily leaves. Removed
those I found.

I went to the website you recommended and did my best to do a
post-mortem physical exam. I also checked a could of websites that
tell you how to sex a fish. As far as I am able to judge (granted, I
am really new at this) the fish appears to be female. I saw no
bruising this time. The gills were not gloppy or gooey and the tissue
didn't look like raw hamburger or anything. I guess it's hard to
judge the color in a dead fish, but the color was a deep pink, about
the color of healthy gums in people. The consistency of the belly
felt normal, as far as I was able to judge. I couldn't express
anything from the anal port. The mouth looked okay--no redness, no
white strings. I was aware of a slime coat but it didn't feel
particularly mucousy or thick on my fingers after I let go of the
fish. The fins and tail looked okay, no evidence of trauma or
unusual coloration or texture. The eyes looked normal as far as I
could see. There were a few scales missing, but I don't know if that
happened after the fish died or not.

I don't know why my fish are dying. It's very scarey. Anybody have
any thoughts about any anything else I ought to be doing?

Thanks.

Joan

Internal spawning injuries and/or infected eggs would account for what you see.
spawning bruises most certainly would look purplish. Ingrid

Try adding some activated carbon. Something is telling me that it may be
some kind of poisoning. It may be low level, but carbon will remove the
poisons. There doesn't appear to be any other explanation that hits me,
based on the information you have posted.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"JGW" wrote in message
...

Again, thanks for responding!

Today I found another fish dead. :-(

Again, I checked the water chemistry. pH 7.4, nitrite and ammonia
negative, hardness as before. I added a little more lime to the
filter and cleaned the pumps and checked to make sure the air pump and
waterfall are working okay.

I did find some aphids on a couple of the pond lily leaves. Removed
those I found.

I went to the website you recommended and did my best to do a
post-mortem physical exam. I also checked a could of websites that
tell you how to sex a fish. As far as I am able to judge (granted, I
am really new at this) the fish appears to be female. I saw no
bruising this time. The gills were not gloppy or gooey and the tissue
didn't look like raw hamburger or anything. I guess it's hard to
judge the color in a dead fish, but the color was a deep pink, about
the color of healthy gums in people. The consistency of the belly
felt normal, as far as I was able to judge. I couldn't express
anything from the anal port. The mouth looked okay--no redness, no
white strings. I was aware of a slime coat but it didn't feel
particularly mucousy or thick on my fingers after I let go of the
fish. The fins and tail looked okay, no evidence of trauma or
unusual coloration or texture. The eyes looked normal as far as I
could see. There were a few scales missing, but I don't know if that
happened after the fish died or not.

I don't know why my fish are dying. It's very scarey. Anybody have
any thoughts about any anything else I ought to be doing?

Thanks.

Joan

Internal spawning injuries and/or infected eggs would account for what
you see.
spawning bruises most certainly would look purplish. Ingrid

call Jo Ann and discuss this with her. 1-251-649-4790. Ingrid

JGW wrote:


Again, thanks for responding!

Today I found another fish dead. :-(

Again, I checked the water chemistry. pH 7.4, nitrite and ammonia
negative, hardness as before. I added a little more lime to the
filter and cleaned the pumps and checked to make sure the air pump and
waterfall are working okay.

I did find some aphids on a couple of the pond lily leaves. Removed
those I found.

I went to the website you recommended and did my best to do a
post-mortem physical exam. I also checked a could of websites that
tell you how to sex a fish. As far as I am able to judge (granted, I
am really new at this) the fish appears to be female. I saw no
bruising this time. The gills were not gloppy or gooey and the tissue
didn't look like raw hamburger or anything. I guess it's hard to
judge the color in a dead fish, but the color was a deep pink, about
the color of healthy gums in people. The consistency of the belly
felt normal, as far as I was able to judge. I couldn't express
anything from the anal port. The mouth looked okay--no redness, no
white strings. I was aware of a slime coat but it didn't feel
particularly mucousy or thick on my fingers after I let go of the
fish. The fins and tail looked okay, no evidence of trauma or
unusual coloration or texture. The eyes looked normal as far as I
could see. There were a few scales missing, but I don't know if that
happened after the fish died or not.

I don't know why my fish are dying. It's very scarey. Anybody have
any thoughts about any anything else I ought to be doing?

Thanks.

Joan

Internal spawning injuries and/or infected eggs would account for what you see.
spawning bruises most certainly would look purplish. Ingrid




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from
your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit?
I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without
specifics ;-)

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"JGW" wrote in message
...
In the last month, I've found two of my goldfish in my outdoor pond
dead. The water chemistry is fine except for the hardness being too
low. I added a bunch of dolomite lime almost a month ago after the
first fish died, and the hardness is improving, although the pH today
was still on the low side. I don't know of any toxins that could
have gotten into the water, and the fish showed no obvious sign of
injury. Is there something else I should be doing or thinking about
to protect my remaining fish?

Thanks.

Joan
___________________

Hi, Nedra.

I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish
dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH
was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the
morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite
lime.

Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0
(around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm.

I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water
hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a
leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to
try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the
waterfall.

Joan


Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from
your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit?
I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without
specifics ;-)

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

Joan ... Thanks for the specifics!
Okaaay Here goes ...
If it were me I would remove the lime and start (in the morning) to add
baking
soda --- 1 pound to 1,000 gallons of water. Only plan to change out
1/3 of the volume of pond water at a time. In other words take 3 days to
get your pond up to the 1 lb to 1,000 point. I dilute the baking soda (plain
ole
Arm & Hammer) in a big jar of pond water and add it around the perimeter of
the pond. Baking Soda will bring up the hardness of the pond water (KH)
and even out the pH to 8.4 ... which I think is about perfect

We've had huge amounts of rain here in the St. Louis area -
This acidifies the pond water so I have to add baking
soda on a regular basis during the spring and summer. This could be the
reason your KH and pH is low....

HTH

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"JGW" wrote in message
...
Hi, Nedra.

I have a "Master Test Kit" On 5/2/04, when I found the first fish
dead, the pH was 8.2 (late afternoon). The KH was 53.7 ppm and the GH
was 71.6 ppm. Several days later, I tested the pH first thing in the
morning and it was around 7.0. That was when I added the dolomite
lime.

Today, when I found the second fish, the pH was between 6.8 and 7.0
(around noon). The kH was 71.6 ppm and the GH was 107.4 ppm.

I am thinking I may be having too large pH swings and that the water
hardness is too low. I have the dolomite hanging in the water in a
leg from a pair of panty hose, and periodically I squish it around to
try to release more into the water. It hangs right below the
waterfall.

Joan


Joan, We need more specific information about the readings from
your pond. What is the KH? pH? Do you have a test kit?
I for one would be hard pressed to advise anything without
specifics ;-)

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118