pH for tropical fish

I recently set up a 20 gallon tank, and added 1 female guppy with some young
ones. The pH is 7.8 - is this too high? This is pretty much what comes out
of the tap, so should I try to lower it artificially? I am planning to add
other tropical fish in the future (probably neon tetras and platies).

leave the ph alone, fish will adapt to it aslong as its stable. up where i
am the ph is 7.6 and the neon tetras are doing fine in that ph despite the
caresheets saying that neons need soft acidic water. I think that wild
caught neons will need the ph lower but most u find in stores are farm
raised in the higher ph.


"Jan" wrote in message
...
I recently set up a 20 gallon tank, and added 1 female guppy with some
young ones. The pH is 7.8 - is this too high? This is pretty much what
comes out of the tap, so should I try to lower it artificially? I am
planning to add other tropical fish in the future (probably neon tetras and
platies).

"Jan" wrote in message
...
I recently set up a 20 gallon tank, and added 1 female guppy with some
young ones. The pH is 7.8 - is this too high? This is pretty much what
comes out of the tap, so should I try to lower it artificially? I am
planning to add other tropical fish in the future (probably neon tetras
and platies).


Generally speaking, it is much better to match the fish to the water than
the reverse. I suggest you leave your water alone. There is nothing
wrong with 7.8pH that Guppies and Platys will not adapt to easily.
Whether Neons do as well will have more to do with how hard the water is
and whether they are wild caught or farmed fish (which you probably
cannot determine).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"NetMax" wrote in message
.. .

Generally speaking, it is much better to match the fish to the water than
the reverse. I suggest you leave your water alone. There is nothing
wrong with 7.8pH that Guppies and Platys will not adapt to easily. Whether
Neons do as well will have more to do with how hard the water is and
whether they are wild caught or farmed fish (which you probably cannot
determine).

Apparently reared neons can be spotted by observing whether the youngsters
and juveniles are fully coloured up. It's the testosterone in the rearing
tanks. Only adult Neons have the full colour, but then again how do you know
if it's an adult?

There is also an article I read recently about the successful rearing of
Neons and Cardinals in America (Florida) without using hormones, and
apparently, 60% or more of US LFS Neon and Cardinal stock comes from this
source now.

Personally, I do two things when considering Neons - 1) I see if they are
big or not (if they are less than 3/4 inch and fully coloured I get
suspicious) 2) if they are bigger I wait for at least a month and check them
every week or so to see how robust they are in the stress of a shop
environment.

I just got 11 from LFS#1 which were all about 1" long, but I had to put them
on hold over the month because they sell like wild fire here - a very
popular fish with children it seems.

Oz

7.8 is perfect for just about any fish you want to keep. Much better off
for more fish being a little alkaline than being a little acidic.

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

"Margolis" wrote in message
news
7.8 is perfect for just about any fish you want to keep. Much better
off for more fish being a little alkaline than being a little acidic.

--

Margolis


My impression has always been the opposite. What do you base this on?
Assuming a typical relationship between hard water/alkaline and soft
water/acidic, then from my limited experience, keeping very soft water
fish such as Discus in hard water has always been more immediately
problematic than keeping hard water fish such a livebearers in soft
water. Eventually they can all suffer, but if there were consequences,
they seemed more gradual in softer water. African lake cichlids are
sometimes kept in soft water with no other consequences than their
coloration is not as bright.

It might be a mute point, as fish which originate from a pH extreme
should simply not be kept at the other extreme, and most everything well
do well in the middle range.
--
www.NetMax.tk

I say that from my experience. The fish always seem to do better with the
water slightly alkaline than slightly acidic. I have never had any problems
at all keeping any fish in our water of 7.8ph. Tetras, angels, discus, rams
all love it. The angels even breed in it. But anytime I have tried keeping
fish in slightly acidic water, the fish that wanted the alkaline water
always ended up getting sick or getting fungus when they got hurt. Fungus
seemed to be a lot more common in acidic water than in alkaline water. This
has just been my experience of course. It was also recommended by one of
the best mom and pop fish stores in town. All of their tanks were kept at
7.8 and they always had the healthiest fish in town. The proprieter told me
20 years ago that it is easier to keep fish healthy in alkaline water than
in acidic, and I found it works better for me.

btw, I am not talking about hard or soft water, only the ph.


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

Personally I think that it's the osmotic pressure (water hardness) which
has more bearing than the pH. If your water is soft but has a pH of 7.8
(artificially) then this might be quite different from someone who has a
natural pH of 7.8 in much harder water. I would agree that it's easier
to keep fish in softer water, and I would also agree that higher pH
levels are known to be less friendly to various diseases, however given
the choice between naturally buffered soft vs hard, soft is better. If
this particular soft water is artificially brought to higher pH levels by
the municipality (ie: using caustic soda), it does not seem to affect the
fish anywhere near as much as if they were in the harder water which
would normally be associated with the higher pH. Again, just various
observations over the years. Thanks for sharing, and if you know the
hardness of that LFS, it would be interesting to compare.
--
www.NetMax.tk


"Margolis" wrote in message
...
I say that from my experience. The fish always seem to do better with
the water slightly alkaline than slightly acidic. I have never had any
problems at all keeping any fish in our water of 7.8ph. Tetras, angels,
discus, rams all love it. The angels even breed in it. But anytime I
have tried keeping fish in slightly acidic water, the fish that wanted
the alkaline water always ended up getting sick or getting fungus when
they got hurt. Fungus seemed to be a lot more common in acidic water
than in alkaline water. This has just been my experience of course. It
was also recommended by one of the best mom and pop fish stores in town.
All of their tanks were kept at 7.8 and they always had the healthiest
fish in town. The proprieter told me 20 years ago that it is easier to
keep fish healthy in alkaline water than in acidic, and I found it works
better for me.

btw, I am not talking about hard or soft water, only the ph.


--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/200302152...qs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq

NetMax wrote:
Personally I think that it's the osmotic
pressure (water hardness) which has more
bearing than the pH. [lots deleted]

I should point out that there's an assumption behind what NetMax says
when he equates osmotic pressure and hardness. Namely, his assumption
is that the majority of the solutes contributing to osmotic pressure
also contribute to water hardness, GH.

To demonstrate, here's an (absurd) comparison:
Water A:
2M in NaCl
5.0 ppm in Mg++

Water B:
0M in NaCl
5.0 ppm in Mg++

Both these waters will have the same GH on a hobbyist-type GH test kit.
There will, however, be a pretty big difference in osmotic pressure.

I'm certainly not saying that NetMax's assumption is invalid. It may
work fine for even a large majority of aquarists. The only way to know
if it applies in a particular case is to know, as intimately as
possible, the source water and what has been put into it.

I would further submit that a truer way to get a handle on osmotic
pressure would be to measure total dissolved solids (TDS) or to measure
conductivity.

Regards,
Trapper