Goldfish Help

Hello. Don't know what I've done wrong or how to change it. My
pearlscale started to sit on the bottom at certain times of day.
Mostly in the morning and at night. As soon as I put food in he is by
far the most aggresive feeder of the four. Yesterday he sat there
looking so sad and I was at a loss. I went to the pet store and bought
some anti-biotic food. They hate it but eat some. All the water
parameters are fine. No ammonia, no nitrites and the nitrates are
currently around 10ppm. The did get to about 40 at the weekend so I
did a water change to make sure the 'sitting on the bottom' wasn't a
result of this. PH is around 7.8. Today he is a bit more mobile but
now my black moor is doing the same. I just don't get it. They have
had no 'fresh, frozen' food given so can't think of any way that
something harmful has been introduced. I give them freeze dried,
flakes, peas, orange slices daphnia, blood worms, shrimp and tubifex
worms. I did think that it could be a result of the weather getting
warmer but I have my ac set at around 72 and the tank thermometer shows
that the water stays as warm as room temperature.

Any suggestions please? I am really at a loss.

Thanks in advance
Mellie

Mellie101 wrote:
Hello. Don't know what I've done wrong or how to change it. My
pearlscale started to sit on the bottom at certain times of day.
Mostly in the morning and at night. As soon as I put food in he is by
far the most aggresive feeder of the four. Yesterday he sat there
looking so sad and I was at a loss. I went to the pet store and bought
some anti-biotic food. They hate it but eat some. All the water
parameters are fine. No ammonia, no nitrites and the nitrates are
currently around 10ppm. The did get to about 40 at the weekend so I
did a water change to make sure the 'sitting on the bottom' wasn't a
result of this. PH is around 7.8. Today he is a bit more mobile but
now my black moor is doing the same. I just don't get it. They have
had no 'fresh, frozen' food given so can't think of any way that
something harmful has been introduced. I give them freeze dried,
flakes, peas, orange slices daphnia, blood worms, shrimp and tubifex
worms. I did think that it could be a result of the weather getting
warmer but I have my ac set at around 72 and the tank thermometer shows
that the water stays as warm as room temperature.

Any suggestions please? I am really at a loss.

This really sounds like nitrite toxicity... Are you 100% sure there are
no nitrites in the tank? Perhaps something else got into the tank.

Is there anything else unusual about the fish, no matter how small?

Focus on water quality and see if that helps. Change some water every
few days (25% is good) and add lots of fresh, high-quality carbon to the
filter. Clean the gravel really well as you do the extra water changes.
Also consider running with 1 tbsp salt/5 gallons of water for a while.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Thanks. Will give this a try. I did a water test on Saturday and it
came up nice and blue for no nitrites. There is something odd going
on. They do eat fine and I've seen the other 2 fish have bowel
movements but not these 2 in a while. I've been out a lot lately so
doesn't mean anything really. I'll do another water test and change
and put some salt in. They are only being given the anti-biotic food
so hopefully that will cover all angles. I'm off on vacation really
soon so this coudln't have come at a worse time.

Cheers
Mellie

"Mellie101" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks. Will give this a try. I did a water test on Saturday and it
came up nice and blue for no nitrites. There is something odd going
on. They do eat fine and I've seen the other 2 fish have bowel
movements but not these 2 in a while. I've been out a lot lately so
doesn't mean anything really. I'll do another water test and change
and put some salt in. They are only being given the anti-biotic food
so hopefully that will cover all angles. I'm off on vacation really
soon so this coudln't have come at a worse time.

Cheers
Mellie


If you have started antibiotics make sure you follow through with however
long the directions say to use. Do you think its bacterial? I always worry
about using them before knowing what is wrong because if you figure out what
it is and have to treat with something else...well its never a good idea to
stop them to soon.
I have never used the antibiotic food only the pills you open up.
Do they seem bloated at all? Could it be constipation maybe give them some
pea's, the first thing I do when I think something is wrong is water changes
and you doing that so that's good. There is a good page on GF disease let me
see if i can find it.......
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/disease.htm
Check this page out and see if you can find anything that rings a bell
NIK
Hope your guys are ok

Mellie101 wrote,
My pearlscale started to sit on the
bottom at certain times of day.....
I went to the pet store and bought some
anti-biotic food. They hate it but eat some...

Anytime there is a sudden behavior change with fish, something is going
on. Listless and sitting on bottom, the first thing to check is the
temperature. These are also symptoms of a bacterial infection. I would
have done the same thing - start feeding a medicated food. They will
eat it a little better if you were to mix a few drops of fish or shrimp
oil in it. Watch for thin white fish waste - symptoms of an internal
bacterial infection. TMP-sulfa, sulfa 4TMP, or triple sulfa powder
might head off any real problems.

No ammonia, no nitrites and the nitrates are
currently around 10ppm. The did get to about 40 at the weekend so I
did a water change to make sure the 'sitting on the bottom' wasn't a
result of this....

Well, it could be. High levels of nitrAtes most likely means you
haven't been keeping up with the water changes. Not keeping up with
water changes means a jump in DOCs, thus a jump with the levels of
opportunistic bacteria. These germs constantly test the fishs immune
system to gain a foot hold. Consider what type of bacteria comes with
high levels of DOCs. Heterophate bacteria breaks down solids - DOCs.
With an increase of DOCs comes an increase of bacteria (bloom) - once
this bacteria bloom does its job (breaking down the DOCs), their next
solids in the tank would be the fish - once they attack the fish,
antibiotics are needed to kill the bacteria........... Frank

Cheers Frank.

I do a 25% water change religiously every Monday. I've done 3 this
week and no difference although if bacteria had got in it wouldn't make
much of a difference. I stir the gravel up so much that I sometimes
think it is cleaner than my own floor :-) The temperature was my main
concern as it is very difficult to stop it getting too warm in there.
I have the ac on permanatley so hoping that it doesn't get too warm in
there.

They have had a little more life this evening. Could be because of the
water change, food or the fact that the temperature has dropped and it
is bloody freezing.

How did people keep tanks cool before ac? Anyway the thermometer says
that it is about 72-74 which it has been throughout the winter and we
haven't had much of a problem.

My other concern is that my PH seems to have gone up. It was around
7.6 and is now 7.8. Should I add some peat to the filter or not play
around with it?

So funny that once there is food in the tank they act like nothing is
wrong.

Cheers everybody
Mellie

"Mellie101" wrote in message
oups.com...

They have had a little more life this evening. Could be because of the
water change, food or the fact that the temperature has dropped and it
is bloody freezing.

My GF tolerate temps from 38F in winter to 95 F in summer. Even fancy GF
are tolerant of a wide range of temperatures I've found out by my own
experience.

How did people keep tanks cool before ac? Anyway the thermometer says
that it is about 72-74 which it has been throughout the winter and we
haven't had much of a problem.

My active and healthy GF are now in temps of 75 to 80 as the sunroom gets
pretty warm on sunny days. The outside GF have adapted to natural changes
in temps. No need to freeze because of your fish. As long as there is good
aeration and filtration they don't need to stay so cool.

My other concern is that my PH seems to have gone up. It was around
7.6 and is now 7.8. Should I add some peat to the filter or not play
around with it?

Leave it alone. They're also very tolerant of higher PHs.

So funny that once there is food in the tank they act like nothing is
wrong.

Doesn't it make you want to rip your hair out sometimes?

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mellie101 wrote,
My pearlscale started to sit on the
bottom at certain times of day.....
I went to the pet store and bought some
anti-biotic food. They hate it but eat some...

Anytime there is a sudden behavior change with fish, something is going
on. Listless and sitting on bottom, the first thing to check is the
temperature. These are also symptoms of a bacterial infection. I would
have done the same thing - start feeding a medicated food. They will
eat it a little better if you were to mix a few drops of fish or shrimp
oil in it. Watch for thin white fish waste - symptoms of an internal
bacterial infection. TMP-sulfa, sulfa 4TMP, or triple sulfa powder
might head off any real problems.

No ammonia, no nitrites and the nitrates are
currently around 10ppm. The did get to about 40 at the weekend so I
did a water change to make sure the 'sitting on the bottom' wasn't a
result of this....

Well, it could be. High levels of nitrAtes most likely means you
haven't been keeping up with the water changes. Not keeping up with
water changes means a jump in DOCs, thus a jump with the levels of
opportunistic bacteria. These germs constantly test the fishs immune
system to gain a foot hold. Consider what type of bacteria comes with
high levels of DOCs. Heterophate bacteria breaks down solids - DOCs.
With an increase of DOCs comes an increase of bacteria (bloom) - once
this bacteria bloom does its job (breaking down the DOCs), their next
solids in the tank would be the fish - once they attack the fish,
antibiotics are needed to kill the bacteria........... Frank

I believe Frank has a book out under some pen-name..his writing is
professional and his troubleshooting skills are precise...not
rehearsed...It's volunteer work like this that makes this newsgroups one of
the better reasons to access the usenets. (HolyChit...was that a runon
sentence..somebody stop me.........!!!-ED

Totally agree. Would have probably ended all this 'fish stuff' a long
time ago if it wasn't for the people on this board. So patient with me
and my silly newbie questions.

Bought a magazine earlier and then decided that the people on here know
far more :-)

Mellie

"-ED" wrote in message
...

"Frank" wrote in message
oups.com...



(HolyChit...was that a runon
sentence..somebody stop me.........!!!-ED


You will start to sound like me...lol
and that is after four years of collage English that I did well in, you
would never know it when I get on a computer and write email or
newsgroups.... I guess its laziness
Nik