Blast... body rot (long)

OK. Now I'm panicking. My boyfriend's betta suddenly showed a nasty white
patch which started directly behind his dorsal fin yesterday. His beautiful
tail is now stiff and slightly whitish. He's about a three inch fish and the
patch is about a half inch from the base of his dorsal extending towards the
tail.

Luckily we found an old 10g tank last week in the garage which we'd washed out
and checked for leaks anticipating at least a fishy cold or something. So
yesterday we bought a Hagen Biofoam sponge filter, air pump and tubing (the
good green kind), Mardel Maracyn tablets and a heater and hang-on thermometer.
I decided to just buy a glass canopy and opt out for a light right now. I'm
thinking that a darker tank wouldn't be a bad thing for Vlad right now. Am I
wrong?

Temp in the tank's 70F where the tank he came from was 75F. I've read that
temps lower than average make absorbing oxygen a little easier for sick fish.
I know I probably should have stuck to bare tank, but I put in a plastic plant
and 2 lbs of river stones in there for a bit of comfort. The stones will be
boiled after Vlad is moved from the tank and the plant will be tossed out.
(Hopefully after a recovery. :/ ) He seems to appreciate the scenery as he's
been hiding in the leaves or resting near the rocks most of the time. Every
now and then he'll make a circuit around the tank mid-level and dip up for a
gulp of air.

He seems to only be moving with his pectorals and not his usual squidlike
movement. This has led me to believe that perhaps he's lost the use of his
tail. Maybe permanently? Respiration is actually relatively normal. Since he
was up at the top of the tank when I came in today I put a flake in there which
he tried to go after but gave up when the filter output blew it away from him.
I removed the flake... Oh man...

I'm also suspecting that one of my Platys might be getting it. A shade lighter
tint along his back. Should I put him in with Vlad? Any suggestions on an
emergency extra quarantine tank?

Water change yesterday and another due today. My plan so far is to dose Vlad's
tank for the reccomended 5 days and consider his condition again after the 5th
day. If it's gotten worse then I guess I'll have to try to find a vet around
Columbus, OH that carries fish anesthesia. That's really the only way I feel
comfortable about it.

Thanks for reading through and pre-thanks for ANY replies.

Jessica
(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

I'm experiencing the same problem right now. Actually, it has progressed
beyond the stiff, white fin that you mention and started to disintegrate to
stumps ... exposed fin rays are now noticeable.

Not sure what would have cause the problem? I tested the water quality and
it seems OK, but at the same time I'm a begginner.

0 Amonia, 0.25 nitrite (new tank), 11 degrees of hardness, 8.2 PH ... would
the high PH level cause this problem in a beta? Anything else I should test
for? Maybe nitrate as well ...

In any event, I've moved my beta to a 1 gallon tank, which is always sitting
around, waiting for such cases, with pre-treated water that had plenty of
time to build a sufficient bio-filter. I'm going to be administering daily
25% water changes, and will be purchasing some salt, and maybe anitbiotics,
which have been recommended on a number of sites I visited.

I think the darker tank is a good idea. I noticed my Sashimi was hiding
under rocks, and light may have been part of the problem. Right now, he is
at least floating around in the "hospital" tank, which is darker, whereas
before he was constantly hiding, and moving very little.

Also, the water PH in the hospital tank is 7.4 ... and it has always been as
such ... the PH has gone up in the other tank when I introduced a plant into
it. Do plants raise PH levels?

I'll keep you posted of how the recovery goes. In the meanwhile, if anyone
you seasoned veterans could shed some light into the problem, your advice
would be greatly appreciated!

BTW, the fin loss is not permanent ... it will grow back most of the lost
tissue within a few weeks, if the fish is on the way to recovery, of course.

"PurityFailed" wrote in message
...

OK. Now I'm panicking. My boyfriend's betta suddenly showed a nasty
white
patch which started directly behind his dorsal fin yesterday. His
beautiful
tail is now stiff and slightly whitish. He's about a three inch fish and
the
patch is about a half inch from the base of his dorsal extending towards
the
tail.

Luckily we found an old 10g tank last week in the garage which we'd washed
out
and checked for leaks anticipating at least a fishy cold or something. So
yesterday we bought a Hagen Biofoam sponge filter, air pump and tubing
(the
good green kind), Mardel Maracyn tablets and a heater and hang-on
thermometer.
I decided to just buy a glass canopy and opt out for a light right now.
I'm
thinking that a darker tank wouldn't be a bad thing for Vlad right now.
Am I
wrong?

Temp in the tank's 70F where the tank he came from was 75F. I've read
that
temps lower than average make absorbing oxygen a little easier for sick
fish.
I know I probably should have stuck to bare tank, but I put in a plastic
plant
and 2 lbs of river stones in there for a bit of comfort. The stones will
be
boiled after Vlad is moved from the tank and the plant will be tossed out.
(Hopefully after a recovery. :/ ) He seems to appreciate the scenery as
he's
been hiding in the leaves or resting near the rocks most of the time.
Every
now and then he'll make a circuit around the tank mid-level and dip up for
a
gulp of air.

He seems to only be moving with his pectorals and not his usual squidlike
movement. This has led me to believe that perhaps he's lost the use of
his
tail. Maybe permanently? Respiration is actually relatively normal.
Since he
was up at the top of the tank when I came in today I put a flake in there
which
he tried to go after but gave up when the filter output blew it away from
him.
I removed the flake... Oh man...

I'm also suspecting that one of my Platys might be getting it. A shade
lighter
tint along his back. Should I put him in with Vlad? Any suggestions on
an
emergency extra quarantine tank?

Water change yesterday and another due today. My plan so far is to dose
Vlad's
tank for the reccomended 5 days and consider his condition again after the
5th
day. If it's gotten worse then I guess I'll have to try to find a vet
around
Columbus, OH that carries fish anesthesia. That's really the only way I
feel
comfortable about it.

Thanks for reading through and pre-thanks for ANY replies.

Jessica
(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

BTW, the fin loss is not permanent ... it will grow back most of the lost
tissue within a few weeks, if the fish is on the way to recovery, of course.

You know the really frustrating thing? The day before I found him dead, there
was what my LFS (Byerly's for those of you in Ohio) suggested was probably
regenerative fuzz. Don't know the technical name but I'm pretty sure it wasn't
fungal and it certainly was fuzz.

Ah well, no more non-LFS bettas for the boyfriend.

Do plants raise PH levels?

You know, I've wondered about that. I've read that decaying matter can be the
cause of lowered pH in a tank... but I wonder if the nutrients that plants take
in can do it as well... and if they DID, then if the plants were consuming the
pH lowering nutrients it would make sense that there'd be a pH rise, at least
to what it was before the excess nutrients. I can't really see it consistently
raising the pH though. This is pretty much all theory here, so don't do
anything based on what I've rambled about! ~

My best guess for the pH rise in your main tank (just on what you've shared)
might be that you've vaccumed your gravel from a pretty funky state and done a
water change. Icky stuff in the tank should lower the pH and rectifying the
situation seems like it would put your pH back to close where it originally
was. Again, don't go on my word here... it's all theory!

Interesting side note about meds... I heard from a few people I asked at the
LFS that if a fish recovers from something that 'needs' erythromycin (Mardel
tablets) he was probably going to recover anyway. Somethign to ponder.

Zen masters of the freshwater universe? Oh please correct me if I'm giving out
bad info.

Happy Trails,
Jessica

(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

"PurityFailed" wrote in message
...
BTW, the fin loss is not permanent ... it will grow back most of the
lost
tissue within a few weeks, if the fish is on the way to recovery, of
course.

You know the really frustrating thing? The day before I found him
dead, there
was what my LFS (Byerly's for those of you in Ohio) suggested was
probably
regenerative fuzz. Don't know the technical name but I'm pretty sure
it wasn't
fungal and it certainly was fuzz.

Regenerative fuzz? Fungus is a naturally occuring organism which can
grow in open wounds. It's presence can delay the healing (best case), to
causing the wound not to heal and worsen, exposing the fish to anything
else in the water (bacteria) and death. In proper water conditions,
fungus will not usually be able to establish itself in the open would of
a healthy fish with an active immune system.

Ah well, no more non-LFS bettas for the boyfriend.

Do plants raise PH levels?

Plants remove elements from the water which both lower and raise the pH.
Ordinarily, I don't think that their net effect is to cause the pH to
rise though.

You know, I've wondered about that. I've read that decaying matter can
be the
cause of lowered pH in a tank... but I wonder if the nutrients that
plants take
in can do it as well... and if they DID, then if the plants were
consuming the
pH lowering nutrients it would make sense that there'd be a pH rise, at
least
to what it was before the excess nutrients. I can't really see it
consistently
raising the pH though. This is pretty much all theory here, so don't
do
anything based on what I've rambled about! ~

My best guess for the pH rise in your main tank (just on what you've
shared)
might be that you've vaccumed your gravel from a pretty funky state and
done a
water change. Icky stuff in the tank should lower the pH and
rectifying the
situation seems like it would put your pH back to close where it
originally
was. Again, don't go on my word here... it's all theory!

That's logical )

Interesting side note about meds... I heard from a few people I asked
at the
LFS that if a fish recovers from something that 'needs' erythromycin
(Mardel
tablets) he was probably going to recover anyway. Somethign to ponder.

Maybe you should start visiting better LFSs ? ;~). My understanding is
that Erythromycin is a little different in that it's a gram-positive
anti-biotic, and most bacteria (and anti-biotics) are gram-negative.
Your first line of defence is always to use gram-negative anti-biotics,
but occasionally a gram-positive bacteria will show up and then EM is
handy. Note that none of these anti-biotics are that specific. I think
EM has some gram-negative capability, as the others have some
gram-positve capability. On the power scale of anti-biotics, EM is not
the strongest, which might be why your LFS is being glib about fish
recovery.

Zen masters of the freshwater universe? Oh please correct me if I'm
giving out
bad info.

Zen masters? oh, how I wish there was such a thing, especially with fish
medications. The closest might be Frank in alt.aquaria, but then I need
a drugstore and connections with a vet to get the stuff he recommends ;~)

NetMax

Happy Trails,
Jessica

(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

Regenerative fuzz?
NetMax

LOL. That was the best name I could come up with for it. It was clearish
milky white long threads, not bushy stuff like I'd expect 'normal' fungus to
look like. I've been trying to find some pictures online that matched it but
haven't come up with anything from neither a fungal or regenerative search.
(neither, nor, either, or? arg!)


Maybe you should start visiting better LFSs ? ;~)

Oh I don't know about all that. I'm really pleased with the service I've
gotten at Byerly's. I was waiting for a service guy to come back to let me
know if they ever stocked mosquitofish (heterandria formosa) when I noticed a
fish go belly up. As soon as I mentioned it to the guy he peered at it, then
scooped it up mid-sentance and disposed of it. Just that makes me want to shop
there, to tell the truth. Much better state than fish having to do bumper-car
action to swim through the carcasses like at the local Petland.

And one more laurel on Byerly's... the other day a guy spent near 30 minutes on
the phone with me answering questions and even went to examine the tank my fish
came out of to see if they were showing any signs of problems.

Oh man, my tendency to ramble is atrocious.

Jessica
(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

"PurityFailed" wrote in message
...
Regenerative fuzz?
NetMax

LOL. That was the best name I could come up with for it. It was
clearish
milky white long threads, not bushy stuff like I'd expect 'normal'
fungus to
look like. I've been trying to find some pictures online that matched
it but
haven't come up with anything from neither a fungal or regenerative
search.
(neither, nor, either, or? arg!)


Maybe you should start visiting better LFSs ? ;~)

Oh I don't know about all that. I'm really pleased with the service
I've
gotten at Byerly's. I was waiting for a service guy to come back to
let me
know if they ever stocked mosquitofish (heterandria formosa) when I
noticed a
fish go belly up. As soon as I mentioned it to the guy he peered at
it, then
scooped it up mid-sentance and disposed of it. Just that makes me want
to shop
there, to tell the truth. Much better state than fish having to do
bumper-car
action to swim through the carcasses like at the local Petland.

And one more laurel on Byerly's... the other day a guy spent near 30
minutes on
the phone with me answering questions and even went to examine the tank
my fish
came out of to see if they were showing any signs of problems.

I stand corrected and properly chastised. I hope you (and all the
Byerly's lurkers) can accept my humble apology. It was the regerative
fuzz which swayed me down such an errant path. ;~)

Oh man, my tendency to ramble is atrocious.

If what you do is rambling, then I'm in serious trouble.

NetMax

Jessica
(Oh please let the tank cycle...)

It was the regerative
fuzz which

NetMax

Really OT.... I've come to the conclusion that the word regenerative should be
stricken from daily usage on grounds of being much too difficult to pronounce
correctly, let alone spell consistently. I haven't approached authorities with
this as of yet, but I'm sure this issue will at least be touched upon during
the presidential race debate.

I sounded pretty silly trying to describe to someone what I thought was going
on in my tank. Felt like someone shot my mouth full of novacaine by the time I
gave up and called it fuzz.

Vote Jess
(Oh please let the tank cycle...)