Disease or Aggression?

I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar sized mbuna
and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been pretty normal in the
tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with fins all frayed and stringy.
The body, which was quite brilliant blue, had turned mottled red and green
in large spots. The fish was really struggling to swim. I removed it
promptly to a 40 Gallon recovery tank. I looked in on it tonite, and it was
upside down on the gravel (not on its side) and breathing very weakly. This
was not a "runt" in the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe pecking
order, and he isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see any signs
of aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings etc came from
aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably going to die soon
enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so I can take corrective
measures now... most of the fish in the tank are my favorites.

Any suggestions?

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in
e.rogers.com:

I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar sized
mbuna and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been pretty
normal in the tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with fins all
frayed and stringy. The body, which was quite brilliant blue, had
turned mottled red and green in large spots. The fish was really
struggling to swim. I removed it promptly to a 40 Gallon recovery
tank. I looked in on it tonite, and it was upside down on the gravel
(not on its side) and breathing very weakly. This was not a "runt" in
the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe pecking order, and he
isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see any signs of
aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings etc came from
aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably going to die soon
enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so I can take
corrective measures now... most of the fish in the tank are my
favorites.

Any suggestions?




Not sure about the coloration, but my male fryeri have all eventually
been killed by other fish. I think they just do not do well when they
are not top dog in the tank -- or when they lose a spot in the pecking
order. They may be fine for months, but then all of a sudden fall victim
to some other fish.

Keeping fryeri with mbuna is also not a great idea. (General rule is
that haps and mbuna do not mix well). Blue colored mbuna may especially
resent the blue coloration of the fryeri. Most of the serious aggression
will occur when you are not watching.

Meph

Usually these cichlids will only pick on their own species but there
are always exceptions. I would not rule out the possibility of a
disease or water-quality problem. Once a fish shows signs of weakness
the others will attack regardless of species or size.

There are too many unknowns to make an educated guess since I have not
seen your tank or fish. So until you know if the fish died from
aggression or something else it would be a very good idea to keep a
close watch on the fish and look for signs of not eating etc.

--


Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com


"The Madd Hatter" wrote in
message
e.rogers.com...
I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar
sized mbuna
and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been pretty normal
in the
tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with fins all frayed and
stringy.
The body, which was quite brilliant blue, had turned mottled red and
green
in large spots. The fish was really struggling to swim. I removed it
promptly to a 40 Gallon recovery tank. I looked in on it tonite, and
it was
upside down on the gravel (not on its side) and breathing very
weakly. This
was not a "runt" in the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe
pecking
order, and he isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see
any signs
of aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings etc came
from
aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably going to die
soon
enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so I can take
corrective
measures now... most of the fish in the tank are my favorites.

Any suggestions?

Peacocks can also fall out the same way, and have never been able to explain
that either.... Once it was the removal of a ton of plants that upset the O2
exchange in the water and basically was caught too late...


"The Madd Hatter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar sized
mbuna
and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been pretty normal in the
tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with fins all frayed and
stringy.
The body, which was quite brilliant blue, had turned mottled red and green
in large spots. The fish was really struggling to swim. I removed it
promptly to a 40 Gallon recovery tank. I looked in on it tonite, and it
was
upside down on the gravel (not on its side) and breathing very weakly.
This
was not a "runt" in the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe pecking
order, and he isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see any
signs
of aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings etc came from
aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably going to die soon
enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so I can take corrective
measures now... most of the fish in the tank are my favorites.

Any suggestions?

Its frustrating as hell, because I started off with around 5 or 6 males
around 6" each and about 3 females around 3.5".... They are among the most
expensive fish I have, and are definitely my favorites in the "looks"
department. Ofcourse I still love mbuna for pure personality.

I have a 35 Gallon tank I could set up to keep my remaining 2 males (5" and
6") as well as my female (3.5")... would this work for now? My other option
is a 77 Gallon Mbuna tank that has perlmutts, cynotilapia axelrodi, cyno.
afra "edwardi", Ps. Flavus, and some other odds and ends... These guys are
all a lot smaller then the fish in the 100 gallon... (Largest fish is an
axelrodi male at 4", rest are around 3" range)... Would my fryeri just
cause problems in this tank?

Thanks in advance folks!

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar sized
mbuna
and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been pretty normal in the
tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with fins all frayed and
stringy.
The body, which was quite brilliant blue, had turned mottled red and green
in large spots. The fish was really struggling to swim. I removed it
promptly to a 40 Gallon recovery tank. I looked in on it tonite, and it
was
upside down on the gravel (not on its side) and breathing very weakly.
This
was not a "runt" in the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe pecking
order, and he isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see any
signs
of aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings etc came from
aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably going to die soon
enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so I can take corrective
measures now... most of the fish in the tank are my favorites.

Any suggestions?

Generally, with Malawi mouthbrooders, you want to have a ratio of one
male to two or three females. Moreover, with fryeri in particular, it is
usually going to be difficult to keep multiple males in one tank. Given
the choices you present, I would sell back one of the males and put the
other two fish in the 77 gallon tank (provided none of the fish there are
small enough for the fryeri to swallow -- if not, the fryeri should leave
them alone). Though as the mbuna get bigger, I would expect them to do
in the fryeri.

Ideally, you would want a separate tank for haps and a separate tank for
mbuna. The mbuna prefer lots of rocks, are mostly algae grazers, and are
pretty aggressive. The haps are open water fish that should have lots of
swimming room, and meaty foods.

Fryeri tend to grow fairly quickly, so my strategy when purchasing them
is to buy them when they are small and cheap. Once they color up nicely,
the prices sometimes go through the roof.

Hope this helps,
Meph

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in
le.rogers.com:

Its frustrating as hell, because I started off with around 5 or 6
males around 6" each and about 3 females around 3.5".... They are
among the most expensive fish I have, and are definitely my favorites
in the "looks" department. Ofcourse I still love mbuna for pure
personality.

I have a 35 Gallon tank I could set up to keep my remaining 2 males
(5" and 6") as well as my female (3.5")... would this work for now? My
other option is a 77 Gallon Mbuna tank that has perlmutts, cynotilapia
axelrodi, cyno. afra "edwardi", Ps. Flavus, and some other odds and
ends... These guys are all a lot smaller then the fish in the 100
gallon... (Largest fish is an axelrodi male at 4", rest are around 3"
range)... Would my fryeri just cause problems in this tank?

Thanks in advance folks!

"The Madd Hatter" wrote in
message
e.rogers.com...
I have a 6" Scienochromis Fryeri in a 100 Gallon tank w/ similar
sized mbuna and other fryeri, and several sun cats.. All has been
pretty normal in the tank for a while. Today I saw this fryeri with
fins all frayed and stringy. The body, which was quite brilliant
blue, had turned mottled red and green in large spots. The fish was
really struggling to swim. I removed it promptly to a 40 Gallon
recovery tank. I looked in on it tonite, and it was upside down on
the gravel (not on its side) and breathing very weakly. This was not
a "runt" in the tank. This fish has been fairly high onthe pecking
order, and he isn't even the smallest of the fryeri... I don't see
any signs of aggression among the other fish. I suspect the markings
etc came from aggression, but the color seemed wierd. Its probably
going to die soon enough, but I would like to diagnose the problem so
I can take corrective measures now... most of the fish in the tank
are my favorites.

Any suggestions?