Still struggling to get tank cycled after more than two months

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Hi all,

My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm. These readings have not changed in the past ten days.
The ammonia will decrease with a 25% water change, but NO2 and NO3
remain basically the same. The pH is 7.6, the tank temp is 75 F. Tank
light is on for about 12 hours a day. No live plants. Feedings have
been very restricted, with many skipped days.

Should I just be patient or what? Why am I not seeing the ammonia drop
if there is nitrite *and* nitrate present?

TIA,

Fred

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--
"Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after."
--Alphonse Allais

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm. These readings have not changed in the past ten days.
The ammonia will decrease with a 25% water change, but NO2 and NO3
remain basically the same. The pH is 7.6, the tank temp is 75 F. Tank
light is on for about 12 hours a day. No live plants. Feedings have
been very restricted, with many skipped days.
=============
At this point if it was my tank I would try and get some "ripe" filter
material from someone with a cycled tank. What about your favorite LFS?
Surely they can spare you something to get your tank cycled. Over 2 months?
Something doesn't sound right there........ but then, 6 fish... how large
is this tank? Could there be chlorimines in your water, not chlorine?
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

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On 2006-05-08, Koi-Lo wrote:

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm.


At this point if it was my tank I would try and get some "ripe" filter
material from someone with a cycled tank. What about your favorite LFS?
Surely they can spare you something to get your tank cycled. Over 2 months?
Something doesn't sound right there........ but then, 6 fish... how large
is this tank? Could there be chlorimines in your water, not chlorine?


The tank is 10 gallons. I use Aquasafe: 1/4 teaspoon for every 2.5
gallon bucket. I siphon off 2.5 gallons and put back 2.5 gallons
(different, dedicated buckets). I assume that if there is nitrite and
nitrate present that both sorts of bacteria are also present, no?

Not a lot of fish, true...I had three neon tetras but they died pretty
soon after introduction (I assume the pH was way off for them).

I'm a patient person but I just want to know what could be causing the
cycle to take so long, especially after having spent many, many hours
researching and reading online and elsewhere to make everything right.
I haven't found anything that addresses unusually protracted cycling.

Again, the fish don't *appear* to be suffering, and they are very hungry
and active. I just would like to add some more at some point...

Thanks for the response.

Fred

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--
"Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after."
--Alphonse Allais

Frederick B. Henry Jr. wrote:

My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm. These readings have not changed in the past ten days.
The ammonia will decrease with a 25% water change, but NO2 and NO3
remain basically the same. The pH is 7.6, the tank temp is 75 F. Tank
light is on for about 12 hours a day. No live plants. Feedings have
been very restricted, with many skipped days.

Should I just be patient or what? Why am I not seeing the ammonia drop
if there is nitrite *and* nitrate present?

What water conditioner and ammonia test are you using? Ammonia bound by
AmQuel, Prime, Ammo-Lock, and similar chloramine treatments registers on
many test kits as free ammonia.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

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On 2006-05-08, Altum wrote:
Frederick B. Henry Jr. wrote:

Should I just be patient or what? Why am I not seeing the ammonia drop
if there is nitrite *and* nitrate present?

What water conditioner and ammonia test are you using? Ammonia bound by
AmQuel, Prime, Ammo-Lock, and similar chloramine treatments registers on
many test kits as free ammonia.


I use Tetra AquaSafe as a water conditioner. I have the Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals test kit that has pH, High pH, Ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrate tests (4 test tubes). I also have some dip stick tests (forget
the brand, but the dip stick also does GH and KH). The ammonia has
never gone over 2 ppm. The nitrite is only just shading over 0.25 ppm.
Nitrate is always at 5 ppm. When the ammonia approches 2 ppm I do a
water change. Feed sparingly, as I said. I am at a loss...

Fred

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--
"Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after." --Alphonse Allais

On Mon, 08 May 2006 20:17:07 -0000, "Frederick B. Henry Jr."
wrote:

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On 2006-05-08, Koi-Lo wrote:

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm.


At this point if it was my tank I would try and get some "ripe" filter
material from someone with a cycled tank. What about your favorite LFS?
Surely they can spare you something to get your tank cycled. Over 2 months?
Something doesn't sound right there........ but then, 6 fish... how large
is this tank? Could there be chlorimines in your water, not chlorine?


The tank is 10 gallons. I use Aquasafe: 1/4 teaspoon for every 2.5
gallon bucket. I siphon off 2.5 gallons and put back 2.5 gallons
(different, dedicated buckets). I assume that if there is nitrite and
nitrate present that both sorts of bacteria are also present, no?

Not a lot of fish, true...I had three neon tetras but they died pretty
soon after introduction (I assume the pH was way off for them).

I'm a patient person but I just want to know what could be causing the
cycle to take so long, especially after having spent many, many hours
researching and reading online and elsewhere to make everything right.
I haven't found anything that addresses unusually protracted cycling.

Again, the fish don't *appear* to be suffering, and they are very hungry
and active. I just would like to add some more at some point...

Thanks for the response.

Fred

Actually, 6 fish in a 10 gallon is a lot of fish for cycling, more
than enough. Have you taken a sample of water to your lfs for testing?
Can you bring home a cup of seasoned gravel from a lfs tank?
Test kits can lie sometimes. How is your tank furnished? Gravel?
Ornaments? Plants? Sponge in the filter? All places for bacteria to
grab hold of and grow? If you have gravel, go easy on the vacuuming as
you want bacteria to grow there. During the cycling phase, you don't
want to be scrubbing anything to squeaky clean. Hmmm.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

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On 2006-05-08, Mister Gardener wrote:
On Mon, 08 May 2006 20:17:07 -0000, "Frederick B. Henry Jr."
wrote:

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On 2006-05-08, Koi-Lo wrote:

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my

Actually, 6 fish in a 10 gallon is a lot of fish for cycling, more
than enough. Have you taken a sample of water to your lfs for testing?
Can you bring home a cup of seasoned gravel from a lfs tank?
Test kits can lie sometimes. How is your tank furnished? Gravel?
Ornaments? Plants? Sponge in the filter? All places for bacteria to
grab hold of and grow? If you have gravel, go easy on the vacuuming as
you want bacteria to grow there. During the cycling phase, you don't
want to be scrubbing anything to squeaky clean. Hmmm.


OK, here is the deal. I change the water only when the ammonia gets
around or over that 2 ppm level. I don't vacumm the gravel, though I
did in the beginning. I feed the fish *very* sparingly. I effectively
have two testing kits: 1) aquarium pharma kit 2) dip stick. They
coincide. My test kits are not off. There is brown algae growing like
crazy (here in Chicago we have a high silica level). The water is hard
as ell and clear. I only scrub the brown stuff off because it was
literally obscuring my view. I use tap water treated with Aquasafe. My
buckets are clean and dedicated. I just dons't know why it is taking so
long....

Fred

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--
"Never put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after."
--Alphonse Allais

Frederick B. Henry Jr. wrote:

I use Tetra AquaSafe as a water conditioner. I have the Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals test kit that has pH, High pH, Ammonia, nitrite, and
nitrate tests (4 test tubes). I also have some dip stick tests (forget
the brand, but the dip stick also does GH and KH). The ammonia has
never gone over 2 ppm. The nitrite is only just shading over 0.25 ppm.
Nitrate is always at 5 ppm. When the ammonia approches 2 ppm I do a
water change. Feed sparingly, as I said. I am at a loss...

Forgot one other thing - do you have chlorine or chloramine? Here's
what might be happening...

Cloramine = ammonia + chlorine. Treat with normal dechlor, and you end
up with quite a bit of free ammonia. Water conditioners designed for
chloramines like AquaSafe, Ammo-Lock, Prime, and AmQuel react with the
ammonia to make it nontoxic. This causes two problems:

1) The bound ammonia may not be available to feed filter bacteria.
Kordon is the only manufacturer who has actually tested to be sure
bacteria can break down the bound ammonia. I don't use other products
in cycling tanks.

2) You can get spurious ammonia test readings. AP states that its
MasterTest ammonia kit will test positive in the presence of AP
Ammo-Lock bound ammonia. Kordon's AmQuel and AmQuel+ react directly
with Nessler ammonia reagents and cause a high false positive reading
with or without ammonia. (Salicylate kits change is yellow to
greenish-yellow with increasing ammonia. Nessler kits go from clear to
orange-yellow.)

I use plain AmQuel and AP's Dry Tab kit and get reasonable ammonia
readings. You could also try switching to Tetra's ammonia kit since
Tetra claims it's compatible with AquaSafe.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
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On 2006-05-08, Koi-Lo wrote:

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
My 3 black neon tetras, 1 h. rasbora and 2 glowlight tetras seem very
happy, and aside from the diatom/brown algae I have to scrub away with
water changes, the tank is clear. Today, more than two months after I
set up the 10g tank, and after even trying some (useless) Cycle, my
ammonia is approaching 2 ppm, my nitrite is just over 0.25 ppm and my
nitrate is 5 ppm.


At this point if it was my tank I would try and get some "ripe" filter
material from someone with a cycled tank. What about your favorite LFS?
Surely they can spare you something to get your tank cycled. Over 2
months?
Something doesn't sound right there........ but then, 6 fish... how
large
is this tank? Could there be chlorimines in your water, not chlorine?


The tank is 10 gallons. I use Aquasafe: 1/4 teaspoon for every 2.5
gallon bucket. I siphon off 2.5 gallons and put back 2.5 gallons
(different, dedicated buckets). I assume that if there is nitrite and
nitrate present that both sorts of bacteria are also present, no?

The nitrates may be coming from your tap. I get nitrates as high as 20ppm
from my tap. :-(

Not a lot of fish, true...I had three neon tetras but they died pretty
soon after introduction (I assume the pH was way off for them).

I'm a patient person but I just want to know what could be causing the
cycle to take so long, especially after having spent many, many hours
researching and reading online and elsewhere to make everything right.
I haven't found anything that addresses unusually protracted cycling.

Something apparently is. Or I would think so. Since ours is a multi-tank
household and has been since the day of the flood, I seldom run into
problems cycling a tank. Someone with more knowledge of cycling problems
will come along I'm sure. Watch this spot. :-)

Again, the fish don't *appear* to be suffering, and they are very hungry
and active. I just would like to add some more at some point...

Thanks for the response.

Fred
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"Frederick B. Henry Jr." wrote in message
...
Feed sparingly, as I said. I am at a loss...
===============
Feeding them *sparingly* could be causing stress for fish after 2 months.
Excessive food and fish waste doesn't seem to be causing your problem.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*